Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
It's a feisty edition of the podcast this week as we're joined by Red Eye's Greg Gutfeld and author/columnist David Limbaugh. We cover what the winners will do after election day, a great discussion about the Tea Party and why it is the most significant political movement in a generation, the Frum effect, the pros and cons of a VAT tax, a fashionably late arrival, and yes, some speculation about Peter Robinson's sleeping attire.
Duck! Here come the bullets:
- It's funny because it's true: a recent headline from The Onion.
- Protestors at the '08 Republican Convention plead guilty to charges of gross misdemeanors. They seemed surprised to learn that trying to read Dr. Suess's The Lorax to the judge was also a bad idea.
- Former The Velvet Underground drummer Mo Tucker was interviewed at a Tea Party rally last spring (at the 2:45 mark) and seemed to be a supporter. But now she appears to be backing away from those comments.
- David Frum has his own website and often mixes it up with his fellow conservatives on Twitter.
- In Bedtime for Bonzo, Ronald Reagan plays a college professor who tries to teach human morals to a chimpanzee. Fred de Cordova, who later went on to produce The Tonight Show With Johnny Carson, directed the movie.
- The Value Added Tax (VAT) always inspires a passionate debate when ever it is brought up. Here's a recent discussion hosted by our friends at Volokh Conspiracy.
- Our closing music is a cover of The Chordettes' Mr. Sandman by Pomplamoose, a duo from Northern California that has built a substantial audience by posting their videos on Youtube. See them perform Mr. Sandman here.
The direct link to this week's episode is here, but we'd really love it if you'd subscribe. We know iTunes isn't for everyone, so visit our Feedburner page for a number of other subscription options.
The Ricochet Podcast is sponsored by Encounter Books and their Broadside Series. This week's featured title is How the Obama Administration Threatens Our National Security by Victor Davis Hanson. Available for $5.99 at EncounterBooks.com.
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Jul '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Cas Balicki
Kenneth
So when you make a retail purchase, is the VAT tax clearly stated? · Oct 20 at 10:07pm
Yes! In British Columbia it is 12% and you see it on every retail sales slip or production invoice. The manufacturers' tax was hidden, which made it pernicious in its effect. With a VAT it is also in the producers' interest to play the game honestly, because what he pays out in tax is deducted from what he collects. Look, I'm not arguing in favour of taxes, but if you're going to have them they should be highly visible, as fair as possible, paid by as many as possible, and a prod to the electorate. · Oct 20 at 10:18pm
Thoroughly agree with that last sentence.
Jul '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
I still don't get it. If the VAT looks like a sales tax to the end consumer, why go through all the rigamarole? Why not just impose a simple national sales tax instead?
Jun '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
The fact that the BC sales tax was recently harmonized has had a dramatic effect on the popularity of the provincial government, because a series of goods and services which were not previously taxed by the province are now taxed. So if polls are to be believed the electorate is looking to get even as we write. As for electoral tipping points, James, I would suggest you sit back brew some tea and reflect on the American political landscape going into that telltale first Tuesday in November. Then again you might better pass the time sharpening your pitch fork, what say you?
Jun '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Small producers of goods and services, such as your local drywaller, would be strongly tempted to offer a 'cash' or under the table price. The VAT nets these small fry as it gets most businesses asking for a tax number. For the record, I only used drywallers as an example and should state that they are no more dishonest than any other trade. Also, we all know that it's car mechanics that are the true sociopaths.
Aug '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Also, it not always easy to tell who the end-consumer is, is it? But what I've heard is that there's huge political pressure from retailers to not have a simple sales tax, as they feel it unfairly discriminates against them. I'm too sleepy to figure out whether this argument is a sensible one or not (quite possibly not).
The cat-flushing-toilet song is excellent, by the way. I'm sure it will be a hit with my family -- though my "green" cousin won't like how the cat "does not care if he's wastin' water".
I notice, though that the cats in the video are only confronting simple American models. Would be interesting to see what a cat could make of all the hoses and nozzles on a Japanese luxury model.
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Wow, great podcast. I jotted down so many thoughts in response that I'll have to abandon some. I'll catch up on the comments tomorrow, but for now...
While I normally don't believe voters have much leverage over politicians between election years, I agree that Republicans could feel continued responsibility to Tea Party voters provided Republicans believe those voters are likely to respond to betrayal by forming a third party in 2012 or 2014. However, I'm not sure that threat is sufficiently believed by the GOP establishment yet.
David, might a significant portion of conservative voters "go rogue" before 2014? Or do you think enough will be patient through a largely impotent House until we have a shot at a Republican president and real power?
Greg might be right that the GOP should seek and encourage individuals who match their voters' preferences. Many good people don't run because they can't imagine themselves in politics. Though the establishment should never have complete control over who runs, perhaps the GOP should actively try to improve the quality of its membership, rather than simply hope the right people come along.
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
David: "They want to turn this into rocket science when our founding principles aren't about rocket science." Exactly right! Our government has become so large, complex and obfuscated that not even veteran politicians or Constitutional lawyers are familiar with half of it. Laws are written so that citizens are expected to obey them without understanding them. Some complexity is inevitable, but the tax code is just one example of needlessly labyrinthine legislation. Bloated bureaucracy is another of our nation's great wounds.
I'm not very familiar with Frum, but there is a reasonable division among conservatives based on degrees of hope. Some believe that Constitutional fidelity and pre-FDR-size government can indeed be restored. Some believe that we are inevitably doomed to leftward spiral and can only slow our descent into madness. Others similarly believe we're doomed but refuse to give up freedom willingly.
Lileks: "It [lunar landing] had better be us." Progressives are nationally agnostic as they are culturally agnostic... which is to say that they believe in a world without borders while unthinkingly demanding the benefits of borders, just as multiculturalism pervades their thinking up to the point that their own culture is threatened.
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
David makes an extremely important point about how often conservatives back down when liberals accuse us. What has been lacking among conservatives more than anything else in recent history, and what the Tea Party offers great hope of restoring, is courage.
There was a great running joke in the Yes, Minister show in which the politician quickly backed down from any position described as courageous. We need courage in our politicians. More importantly, we need it in our citizens, in everyday interactions.
Minds are changed by individuals, not by parties. Tea Party voters have no intention of being GOP streetsoldiers, ala Obama fanatics. But if the GOP boldly and firmly proposes reasonable sacrifices from citizens to reduce the deficit, secure the economy and restore freedom -- clearly and simply identifying them as such -- then conservative voters will use the next two years to convince their peers to accept those sacrifices.
Peter, you're doing it again. Let the liberals talk up their non-ideological diversity.
Rob, squishes everywhere can be proud of how assertively you debated with a Limbaugh.
David, again, I hope you will return as a permanent contributor.
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
I agree with David that the Tea Party movement transcends most demographics. But I do believe there is a rebellion among many young people against progressivism, and it began long before the Tea Party movement. Among Catholics, a resurgence of staunch conservatism was recognized while Pope John Paul II was alive.
The difference, I'd guess, is that my generation (1980) did not grow up in a time of riots, orgies and sweeping change (nor one of rigid constraints and Cold War fears). Rather, the change had already happened, and its ill effects (political correctness, false victimhood and favoritism, devaluing of objective beauty and truth, fragile family bonds, etc) pervaded every aspect of our lives. For us, the corruption is too obvious to ignore and too frustrating to meekly tolerate.
But that's not to say that my whole generation, or even a majority, feel this way. Plenty of my generation live aloof.
No, Rob, there won't be a youth party. There will be (and are) social groups focused on young conservatives, though.
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Another point about my generation. Few are willing to admit it openly, but we're all thinking that "retirement" will mean something very different for us than it currently means for our parents. Most seem to have a willful certainty that Social Security will still be around in some form, but we're all generally worried. Those with toddlers are particularly troubled by the utter uncertainty of what future their children will face.
Greg is only half-right when he says young voters can be bought off. Many accept "gifts" like the home owner's tax credit and Cash-for-Clunkers without feeling any loyalty to Democrats in return. One said to me, "It's my tax money, anyway, right?" They continue to vote Republican even while taking advantage of entitlements offered by Democrats. In this way, they're encouraging the GOP to swing left, but at least they're voting Republican and supporting conservative ideals in theory. It's a start.
Sorry for so many long consecutive posts! I don't mean to dominate the conversation. These are all notes I wrote down while listening to the podcast (like I always do).
Sep '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
I believe that Milton Friedman's original idea was to go to a pure consumption tax, eliminate the income tax and thereby avoid taxing any savings, merely consumption. As usual, everywhere a VAT/GST/HST is imposed it acts not only as a revenue increaser on top of existing taxes, but politicians cave in to the exempting certain items, such as food, and raising the total rate. Friedman's idea was to tax food, but to help out the truly needy with direct government assistance targetted specifically at them.
Oct '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
As to the flat and VAT tax:
Limbaugh raised a point that I believe remains unanswered... How are you going to keep the flat tax flat?
If you implement a flat and VAT tax with a Republican congress, the next time congress switches you’re going to have a flat tax and a mildly progress income tax. This tinkering continues until you have a highly progressive income tax with a VAT tax.
Rob, you rightly complain that so many people don’t pay taxes, but wasn’t this started under Reagan? This is why so many conservatives cringe when Republicans try and get clever with tax schemes. Before you try add a VAT tax to a flat income tax, please let me know how we keep the income tax flat.
Jun '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
I got my first job just out of college with the IRS. The tax code in 1981 looked like a stack of phone books. I shiver to think what it looks like now. So before conservatives start talking about complex schemes like the VAT, they should consider doing the obvious. Take an axe to the tax code and start hacking out all the special exemptions that were inspired by lobbyists and paid for with campaign contributions. Special tax exemptions are little different in practice from earmarks. It's a form of corruption. Think less, not more.
Jun '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Here's some common sense radicalism while I'm at it. When we get power back, job one will be to place a hiring freeze on the federal government. This can be done by executive order. The president can then reduce the number of cabinet positions by rolling the essential duties of some departments into others. You can put the Commerce Department (really nothing more than a weather bureau), EPA, and Energy under the Department of Interior. HUD, HEW, HHS and DoE can combined into one agency. Congress can then slash the budgets of each agency including freezing or reducing government employee compensation. Let natural attrition reduce the size of the federal workforce. Eliminate positions instead of rehiring. It's not that difficult.
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Much of the criticism against the VAT in the podcast sounded knee-jerk.
It's true that the VAT in Europe isn't transparent, but that's no reason we can't make it so if we decide to go that route. The tax itself is much less complicated (and far less expensive) than the system we have right now and it's not difficult, legally or technologically, to make the cost of the VAT visible to consumers. So long as it is part of a complete overhaul of the system (either as the only tax or as a companion to a low and equally simple flat tax), I don't see why it shouldn't be on the table for discussion. I certainly wasn't convinced by the podcast that we should toss it out without consideration.
Oct '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Blue Yeti
It was time to retire The Fire. Suggestions welcome for a new intro. · Oct 20 at 7:06pm
Edited on Oct 20 at 07:07 pm
It was a signature of the show. After listening to about 1 dozen podcasts, my brain had finally re-categorized that song from "that's the Arcade Fire song", to "that's the Ricochet podcast song".
My vote is to go back, but whatever you decide, stick with it!
May '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
That's not just your generation that's thinking that way Aaron.
Oct '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
These thoughtful discussions on VAT tax configurations, although an interesting intellectual diversion, remind me of things the “Tax Collectors for the Welfare State” prefer to engage. The main problem confronting this nation is SPENDING. Mitch Daniels got pulled into this trap recently, as well. For the general public, these VAT tax discussions (and corresponding massive changes to our society) will give them Obamacare technocratic flashbacks.
Edited on October 22, 2010 at 12:58amOct '10
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Ken Sweeney: these VAT tax discussions (and corresponding massive changes to our society) will give them Obamacare technocratic flashbacks. · Oct 21 at 3:02pm
Edited on Oct 21 at 03:58 pm
Yes I agree. Businesses can't plan for the future if they know that massive changes are in the making. We’d be trading one button-pushing lever-pulling technocratic class for another. Give the business market some stability. Cut the size of government, cut regulations and let businesses grow.
Re: Ricochet Podcast #40: The Wake Up Call
Good point. And I think the only way a VAT makes sense to me is if it's combined with an elimination of the federal income tax, or at least a flat, low federal income tax. How would we keep it that way? Well, that's always a problem, no matter what the reform. I'd love to see a constitutional amendment requiring a one-rate federal income tax with zero deductions. I'd even -- and I know this will get me into trouble -- prefer a higher than optimal flat tax rate, just to get to a flat tax law. I mean, just to pull a number out of the air, I think a 40% flat tax would still be better than what we have now, which is a corrupt, jerry-rigged system.