Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Richard Young ·
August 27, 2011 at 7:16am
In an article over on NRO, Jonah Goldberg expresses his concern over what he calls an “identity-politics problem” that conservatives risk if they nominate Rick Perry. The article is worth reading and expresses my same reservations with Perry. He sums it up by saying “...folksiness isn’t a substitute for seriousness, and I have very little patience for those who pretend otherwise.”
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Comments:
Oct '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
The basic fact is that Jonah wants to be taken seriously in DC and Perry's accent is a liability there.
If you don't want to defend cultural distinctions - well, don't. I strongly suspect it's only among the coastal politico-media 'elites' that such prejudices run rampant.
Jonah says "I think conservatism needs to spend less time defending candidates for who they are, and more time supporting candidates for what they intend to do." Well, then do it. The trouble is, the easy columns to write are the ones that pick off the pretensions of the fly-over-phobic crowd. And there is a tendency in the media - born largely of laziness I suspect - to focus on process over substance. When Perry suggested that a politically motivated quantitative easing would be a bad thing, how many columns debated that rather than his choice of words, or - even more irrelevantly - how his choice of words would affect the race?
May '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Elizabeth Dunn
Michael Labeit
Without California, New York, and Illinois, the South would constitute just another 1st world economy.
But CA, NY and IL are in remarkedly dire financial straits and... Texas is not.
I think this is irrelevant. I'm talking about GDP. Without California and New York, the U.S. would be an unremarkable Western nation, economically, culturally, intellectually, etc. Every region goes through economic contractions. This shouldn't overshadow the innovation that occurs within those areas. South Dakota is performing superbly, but its contribution to the total national GDP is negligible. Hardly anyone would notice if aliens zapped South Dakota into non-existence. We're talking about what "drives" the U.S. economy. Its not the South - not by itself.
Nov '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Michael Labeit
Elizabeth Dunn
Michael Labeit
Without California, New York, and Illinois, the South would constitute just another 1st world economy.
But CA, NY and IL are in remarkedly dire financial straits and... Texas is not.
I think this is irrelevant.
Broke and burdensome upon the American taxpayer is hardly irrelevant!
Jul '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
True but not germane. To put it bluntly, Perry sounds like a ****kicker. Let us stipulate that he is not one. But the unfairness of the perception doesn't change its reality. Let's not shoot the messenger.
Jun '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Nonsense. I'm from Connecticut. Lived here most of my life. My family (on my father's side) goes back thirteen generation to the Mayflower. Yes, Jonah is absolutely right about the bigotry and snobbery of many from my neck of the woods but so what? Their bigotry is a truly shameful thing. If Perry is the right man for the job, why should Republicans care what a bunch of ignorant bigots think?
No, folksiness isn't a substitute for seriousness. Who's saying it is? So far Perry's been making the case for a smaller federal government, for the 10th amendment. This is a serious argument. If Jonah doesn't allow himself to get hung up on the west Texas twang, he might hear that too.
Jun '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Michael Labeit
Elizabeth Dunn
Michael Labeit
Without California, New York, and Illinois, the South would constitute just another 1st world economy.
But CA, NY and IL are in remarkedly dire financial straits and... Texas is not.
I think this is irrelevant. I'm talking about GDP. Without California and New York, the U.S. would be an unremarkable Western nation, economically, culturally, intellectually, etc.
And without Tennesse Williams, William Faulkner, Eudora Welty, Harper Lee, Cormac McCarthy, Tom Wolfe, Walker Percy (I could go on) just how culturally and intellectually remarkable would the U.S. be?
Jul '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
shelby_forthright: Their bigotry is a truly shameful thing. If Perry is the right man for the job, why should Republicans care what a bunch of ignorant bigots think?
. · Aug 27 at 2:10am
The question isn't what is right and decent and what Jonah or anyone else should do or think. Once again, that's beside the point.
Try to think of it this way. Suppose you have a candidate who is irreproachable on substance, but is ill-groomed and dresses like a slob. Is it out of line to suggest that he is needlessly turning off potential voters (not to mention giving the opposition a stick with which to beat him) by the way he presents himself?
The polling on the 1960 presidential debates had Nixon winning among those who heard it on the radio but losing among those who saw it television. Image matters, and it matters nowhere more than in a mass democracy with universal suffrage. I don't deny that this is to be deplored, but it is something we have to live with.
May '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Elizabeth Dunn
Michael Labeit
Elizabeth Dunn
Michael Labeit
Without California, New York, and Illinois, the South would constitute just another 1st world economy.
But CA, NY and IL are in remarkedly dire financial straits and... Texas is not.
I think this is irrelevant.
Broke and burdensome upon the American taxpayer is hardly irrelevant!
My argument, though you abbreviate it to one statement, stands. The South does not "drive" the economy, let alone on the premise that there are well-performing Southern states. I'll take the proposition of mine you quoted as the one to which you object. California is the 8th or 9th largest economy in the world. New York is the 15th or 16th largest economy in the world. Texas ranks 24th in GDP per capita among the states. California has the highest total GDP (among the states) and ranks 12th in GDP per capita. New York has the third highest total GDP and ranks 7th in GDP per capita. Again, economic contractions and fiscal dilemmas do not doom an economy in perpetuity. According to your argument, you might as well pretend that Japan and Western Europe don't matter economically.
Edited on August 27, 2011 at 11:45amMay '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
shelby_forthright
Michael Labeit
Elizabeth Dunn
Michael Labeit
Without California, New York, and Illinois, the South would constitute just another 1st world economy.
But CA, NY and IL are in remarkedly dire financial straits and... Texas is not.
I think this is irrelevant. I'm talking about GDP. Without California and New York, the U.S. would be an unremarkable Western nation, economically, culturally, intellectually, etc.
And without Tennesse Williams, William Faulkner, Eudora Welty, Harper Lee, Cormac McCarthy, Tom Wolfe, Walker Percy (I could go on) just how culturally and intellectually remarkable would the U.S. be?
I don't argue that America would be perfectly fine with only California and New York. I argue that it would be much less distinguished without those states. I think you've allowed the subtlety of this distinction to fool you. Your inference cannot be imputed to me.
Edited on August 27, 2011 at 11:39amJun '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
grotiushug
shelby_forthright: Their bigotry is a truly shameful thing. If Perry is the right man for the job, why should Republicans care what a bunch of ignorant bigots think?
. · Aug 27 at 2:10am
The question isn't what is right and decent and what Jonah or anyone else should do or think. Once again, that's beside the point.
Try to think of it this way. Suppose you have a candidate who is irreproachable on substance, but is ill-groomed and dresses like a slob. Is it out of line to suggest that he is needlessly turning off potential voters (not to mention giving the opposition a stick with which to beat him) by the way he presents himself?
Talking with a southern twang is NOT the same thing as dressing like a slob.
Jun '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
grotiushug
I don't deny that this is to be deplored, but it is something we have to live with. · Aug 27 at 2:33am
No we don't. There's a lot of bigotry and small-mindedness we don't tolerate anymore. There's no reason to continue to indulge this one.
Apr '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
It's my hope that Jonah's implication that regional dialects be actively selected against by Republican primary voters is unintended, and I disagree with the claim if it is intended. I don't think that this is what he means, though, by his objection to identity politics, his claim that people defended Bush's bad speech on the grounds that it was "American", and his concern that people will prefer Perry's style to a rival's substance.
It's very common indeed for people to get a gut reading of a candidate, and then invent their positions to support this. I've spoken to people (multiple times in each case, for a total of 8 conversations) who thought that Coolidge was a passionate free trader, or that Nixon and Romney were protectionists, because they liked Coolidge, and didn't like Nixon or Romney, and thought that as a conservative, Coolidge would have conservative beliefs, or as a non-conservatives/ non-libertarians, Nixon and Romney would have beliefs that weren't conservative or libertarian.
I don't yet know of a problem that I have with Perry, and feel confident that I'd be happy with a President Perry.
Apr '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Cont.
I do think it likely, though, that there will be a number of points during the primary and general elections, and during his administration, assuming all of these feature Perry, that Perry will take non-conservative positions (everyone does it sometimes), and people will defend those positions as conservative because he comes from Paint Creek and has a twang. That's identity politics, and it's worth avoiding. See also Huckabee, Mike.
Oct '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
grotiushug: “Image matters, and it matters nowhere more than in a mass democracy with universal suffrage.”
Authenticity matters far more, especially when the image doesn’t align with reality. The problem with Bush43 was his squishy ideology and astounding inability to counterpunch. His Texas vernacular was disconnected from his political persona.
Others have introduced “ruthlessness” into this discussion. What if we soften that to principled steadfastness—the ethos behind “let’s roll” and git ‘er dun. Isn’t that what we historically associate with Texas? Sure, that grows wearisome inside the Beltway. That’s why the weary Establishment is complicit in what Candidate Obama in June 2008 called Bush43’s “irresponsible” & “unpatriotic” deficit spending. So the problem wasn’t and isn’t a manner of speech, but instead actions that don’t align with what those mannerisms imply about the speaker. The Texas A&M-educated Perry, it seems to me thus far, is a far more authentic Texan than the Yale & Harvard indoctrinated Bush43. If Bush43 had exhibited a principled steadfastness and vigorously defended his administration along the way, Jonah Goldberg wouldn’t even be talking about Rick Perry’s patois.
Edited on August 27, 2011 at 12:40pmOct '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Grimaud: We should not "O'Donnell" anyone who is willing to step up to the plate against the current administration. · Aug 26 at 4:07pm
Edited on Aug 26 at 04:08 p
nobody's going to "o'donnell" perry, but maybe he is a "sharron angle" type-- meaning, even when the establishment and the tea party rallied around her, she still lost to an unpopular incumbent democrat.
Oct '10
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
John Marzan
Grimaud: We should not "O'Donnell" anyone who is willing to step up to the plate against the current administration. · Aug 26 at 4:07pm
Edited on Aug 26 at 04:08 p
nobody's going to "o'donnell" perry, but maybe he is a "sharron angle" type-- meaning, even when the establishment and the tea party rallied around her, she still lost to an unpopular incumbent democrat. · Aug 27 at 3:40am
Sharron Angle was a State Senator, not a three-time Texas Governor whose policies it can credibly be argued resulted in his State generating four in ten new jobs since Obama was sworn in. Not that we should stop using them, but analogies can mislead as much as they can enlighten.
Apr '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
My wife reminds me that my experience with these conversations should have taught me that not everyone knows the silliness of the above positions. Coolidge successfully advocated some of the most disastrous tariff increases in US history as VP, maintained them as POTUS, and advocated raising them a little further under Hoover. People sometimes defend his Michael Moore on steroids speech about Smoot Hawley (importing goods manufactured in the UK would mean profiting from the awful labor conditions there; seriously), by saying that Smoot Hawley wasn't such a bad thing as tariffs were already absurdly high, but since he was responsible for the pre-existing absurdity, I don't think this is much of a defense.
Apr '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
My wife reminds me that my experience with these conversations should have taught me that not everyone knows the silliness of the above positions. Coolidge successfully advocated some of the most disastrous tariff increases in US history as VP, maintained them as POTUS, and advocated raising them a little further under Hoover. People sometimes defend his Michael Moore on steroids speech about Smoot Hawley (importing goods manufactured in the UK would mean profiting from the awful labor conditions there; seriously), by saying that Smoot Hawley wasn't such a bad thing as tariffs were already absurdly high, but since he was responsible for the pre-existing absurdity, I don't think this is much of a defense.
Apr '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Sorry, double posted without intending to post once, should have included a reduced thing on Nixon/ Mitt: Nixon's trade credentials are more complicated, but include starting the Tokyo GATT round on terms that eventually resulted in the WTO (i.e., they included non-tariff barriers as well as tariffs), as well as seeing the largest savings of a GATT round to that point, the Trade Act of 1974 which created the Fast Track Authority that enabled the passing of trade agreements with Israel and Canda under Reagan, the NAFTA under Bush/ Clinton, and the WTO under Clinton. Mitt's trade credentials are somewhat limited by his lack of a job with a lot of foreign policy, but his speeches and books have been fairly sound on the topic.
Apr '11
Re: Rick Perry and the Conservative Image
Sorry, double posted without intending to post once, should have included a reduced thing on Nixon/ Mitt: Nixon's trade credentials are more complicated, but include starting the Tokyo GATT round on terms that eventually resulted in the WTO (i.e., they included non-tariff barriers as well as tariffs), as well as seeing the largest savings of a GATT round to that point, the Trade Act of 1974 which created the Fast Track Authority that enabled the passing of trade agreements with Israel and Canda under Reagan, the NAFTA under Bush/ Clinton, and the WTO under Clinton. Mitt's trade credentials are somewhat limited by his lack of a job with a lot of foreign policy, but his speeches and books have been fairly sound on the topic.