Religion and Conservatism
·
January 30, 2012 at 1:29am
Is it possible to be hostile toward religious faith and be a Conservative?
Reading William F. Buckley Jr.’s thoughts about Max Eastman leaving National Review (prompted by Eastman’s answering the previous question in the negative), I wondered if this conflict has endured. For instance, Bill Maher, who used to claim Libertarian political leanings, is a contemporary avatar of leftism and militant atheism. On the other hand, I can think of several conservatives who claim no religious affiliation: David Horowitz, John Derbyshire, Anthony Daniels but none who are hypercritical of religion.
I believe this obstacle persists.
- Comment (143)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (5)
Comments:
Dec '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
You mis-characterize why Eastman split with Buckley. He wasn't hostile to religion, he simply felt that National Review's politics were too infused with Christianity.
As for your question, here's a mirror image: is it possible to be a conservative while advocating the use of government power to impose one's religiously-based moral views upon others?
Dec '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
That's a trick question. Are the views in question those of the majority or of a minority? That makes all the difference in the world. It is inherently conservative to believe the laws of a society should reflect the moral culture of that society.
Apr '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
In so many ways the confusion is a problem of definition. Moderns tend to use the word "Atheist" when what they really mean is "Irreligious." The so-called New Atheists may rail against established religious denominations, but they're as God-obsessed as a conclave of Medieval Monks.
In its adjectival sense to be "conservative" means "Holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in politics or religion."
To be "A Conservative" is to be "A person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in politics."
In Bill Maher's case "Libertarian" is a euphemism for "Militant Childishness."
Mar '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
I am opposed to Shariah. It is a profoundly anti-conservative faith.
And I have a lot of problems with the legislation of morality - as a matter of my religious faith, G-d wants us to freely make good choices. Most social conservatives feel otherwise.
Dec '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
That's a trick question. Are the views in question those of the majority or of a minority?
So it's that simple? It comes down to who's in the majority?
Great: 80% of Americans support the right to choice under some or all circumstances. And 53% now support gay marriage.
Fortunately, the Constitution protects the right of the free expression of minority views and the right of minorities to live free of persecution by the majority.
Dec '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
As for abortion, it's about a right to life that is above and beyond personal liberty. For marriage, it's not a moral argument to redefine the language.
Dec '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
As for abortion, it's about a right to life that is above and beyond personal liberty. For marriage, it's not a moral argument to redefine the language.
Those are you personal, religiously-based moral opinions and I respect them.
But from a standpoint of constitutional governance, you do not have the absolute right to force those opinions upon others - that is not conservative, it is a religious version of statism.
Apr '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
John Derbyshire says he's a Mysterian.
Dec '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
"Those are you personal, religiously-based moral opinions and I respect them." Are you saying the right to life as expressed in the Declaration is just a religious belief?
Apr '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
As you mention, there is a difference between unbelief (or lack of faith) and active antipathy toward religion. I'd put Horowitz/Derb/Daniels (and, well, myself) in the unbelief camp. I describe myself as a cultural but unbelieving Christian and a committed wing-nut. With the usual caveats about sharia, etc., I have no hostility at all to the free and full practice of religion.
Brian Watt and Michael Labeit might have something to say about this...
Jun '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
Dalrymple is not a man of faith, but is a man who reveres the role religion has placed in our culture:
Heather MacDonald is an atheist, but still conservative. She is clear that her conservatism comes from principles not based on religion--at the same time, she doesn't go out of her way to demonize the religious.
My conservatism is based largely on religion. But if others come to a conservative worldview by other means, they're welcome under my tent.
Edited on January 29, 2012 at 11:30pmDec '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
"Those are you personal, religiously-based moral opinions and I respect them." Are you saying the right to life as expressed in the Declaration is just a religious belief?
I am saying that the Constitution is mute with regard to the right to life of the pre-born.
Now let's talk about liberty. You do realize, do you not, that you're advocating the imprisonment of potentially millions of women and untold numbers of doctors?
Let's suppose for a moment that you get your way and abortion is outlawed nationally. Will women who travel overseas be forced to undergo medical exams beforehand in order to assure that they're not going somewhere else for an abortion? Will they be forced to undergo medical exams when they come back home?
And, since abortion is, among many opponents, defined as "murder", will the death penalty be imposed?
Apr '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
iWc: I am opposed to Shariah. It is a profoundly anti-conservative faith.
And I have a lot of problems with the legislation of morality - as a matter of my religious faith, G-d wants us to freely make good choices. Most social conservatives feel otherwise. · 37 minutes ago
Shariah is not a faith, it is a legal code. Islam is based on 3 relationships: God to Man (Haqiqa); Man to Himself (Tariqa); and Relationships between Men (Sharia.) These three concepts together make up what would amount to, I suppose, an Islamic vision of Natural Law; one that is, by definition, profoundly conservative. Just not "conservative" in the contemporary American political sense.
Dec '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
NP, I hope you're just arguing the point to absurdity. No, the constitution does not consider the unborn, but probably the authors never conceived of an argument that the unborn would be considered inhuman. Also, the fundamental right to life predates the constitution. As for the penalties, that would be up to the legislatures and the courts to decide. If Americans can be charged for going out of the country to commit child rape, then why not charging them for child murder?
Aug '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
To be hostile towards religion is to be hostile towards individual freedom. Therefore, it seems to me to be common sense that hostility towards religion is incompatible with conservatism.
One can be an atheist without being hostile towards religion.
May '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
Anybody who believes Bill Maher ever had libertarian leaning is a fool, unless by "libertarian" you mean "a great big government that lets me smoke dope."
Edited on January 30, 2012 at 12:25amDec '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
NP, I hope you're just arguing the point to absurdity. No, the constitution does not consider the unborn, but probably the authors never conceived of an argument that the unborn would be considered inhuman. Also, the fundamental right to life predates the constitution. As for the penalties, that would be up to the legislatures and the courts to decide. If Americans can be charged for going out of the country to commit child rape, then why not charging them for child murder?
Well, since you agree that the Constitution is mute with regard to the unborn, then it's a matter of just changing the Constitution, right?
With 80% of the populace against you, good luck with that.
Dec '10
Re: Religion and Conservatism
"Well, since you agree that the Constitution is mute with regard to the unborn, then it's a matter of just changing the Constitution, right?" The constitution does not need to be changed, it already protects human life. What needs to be changed is people's understanding of human life in the womb.
Dec '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
The constitution does not need to be changed, it already protects human life. What needs to be changed is people's understanding of human life in the womb.
C'mon. The Constitution would have to be changed in order to define a pre-viable fetus as human life. That's precisely why "right-to-lifers" want an amendment.
Anyway, I tire of this argument, so let me just quote the only liberal bumper sticker I've ever liked:
"Don't want abortion? Don't have one."
Jan '11
Re: Religion and Conservatism
Nobody's Perfect: NP, I hope you're just arguing the point to absurdity. No, the constitution does not consider the unborn, but probably the authors never conceived of an argument that the unborn would be considered inhuman. Also, the fundamental right to life predates the constitution. As for the penalties, that would be up to the legislatures and the courts to decide. If Americans can be charged for going out of the country to commit child rape, then why not charging them for child murder?
Well, since you agree that the Constitution is mute with regard to the unborn, then it's a matter of just changing the Constitution, right?
With 80% of the populace against you, good luck with that. · 17 minutes ago
For some reason, Nobody's Perfect seems to be arguing that adherence to the United States constitution is the sine qua non of conservatism.
That's not the case. Constitutionalism is a deeply conservative ideal and the US constitution is an exceptionally conservative document. Both draw their strength from conservative ideals, however, not vice versa. In other words, conservatism is not correct because it is mandated by the constitution.