Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
I haven't done much reading on this but what I have seen addresses the question from the Puerto Rican perspective, which is perfectly alright. However, I was wondering what the argument is for and against statehood from our perspective. In particular, I am curious as to why we would want them to join the union.
For one thing, I'm against it because of the inevitably weird designs for the flag. On top of that, my understanding is that Spanish is more common there than English. So I wonder if there's a cultural divide. Or are they not so different from the rest of the country? I have no way of knowing. I'm sure someone here is from there or has spent some time there and can enlighten me.
P.S.-I forgot to ask if there are any national security/strategic issues involved. Is Cuba a factor?
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Aug '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Go to Miami. You'll swear you're in South America, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Dec '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Ever been to PR? Just recently it's taken a pretty impressive twist to the right. The citizens of Puerto Rico generally speak English, certainly not as a first language, but passably well.
Your first star pattern would be the one. 51 has only two whole factors, 3 and 17, and 17 is 8 plus 9. Three rows of 8, three rows of nine is about the best you can do. Very much the same objection was raised on the 50 star flag, as the only reasonable way to make them fit were interlaced rectangles of 20 and 30 stars. And 48 fit in a single pattern of 8 X 6.
There is definitely a cultural divide. The poor in PR seem almost to have a European outlook, an expectation that the government is going to help. The laws regulating foreign businesses (all the way from Texas) there until very recently were very tough (and expensive) to navigate.
Finally, south Florida is a whole lot closer to Cuba than PR is.
But the most important question is whether they even want to be a state. I don't think they do.
Edited on March 19, 2012 at 11:04pmMar '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
There is a reason more native Puerto Ricans live in the states than PR.
The PR government is a cess pool that operates like a Banana Republic. I know dozens of people who have worked or lived in San Juan and they don't have anything good to say about the city after they are there a while. Just recently my company has been able to close out a 2 year project which became a 5 year project due to no fault of our own. My co-worker who owns property in PR and is a native has been helping trying to close out this project. He is now embarrassed to be called a Puerto Rican after dealing with the government over the past few months. We have done business with other Caribbean nations and did not have these issues. I have friends to do aid work in third world nations and the stories they would tell are as bad as anything my company has dealt with in PR. Based on this experience of how corrupt the government is I am against adamantly against statehood. PR makes Chicago politics look school boyish and makes Californian look like a political paradise.
Edited on March 21, 2012 at 2:41amMay '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
I don't think PR should become a state. They are too disparate culturally than the rest of the US. The status quo is fine. However, if they desperately want to change their status, I don't see anything wrong with letting them break off and form their own country. Of course, there would be the problem of PR not being a very self-sufficient country given the fact that they are a pretty tiny island with not a whole lot of natural resources other than tourism.
Edited on March 19, 2012 at 11:41pmOct '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
When New Mexico came into the union in 1912, our state Constitution was printed in English and Spanish. All of our laws were published in English and Spanish until 1947. Somehow, the Republic survived.
Mar '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Puerto Rico is another country. Really, another country. It would be foolish to admit them as a state. They have a different culture and language. The US has certainly had much influence on that culture, but still, it's a Hispanic culture with American influences, not an Anglo culture with foreign influences. Quebecois at least live on the same landmass. Let's be honest about something. Hawaii is American only because we imposed our language and culture on them and made them Americans. And they still have a strong separatist streak (see Daniel Akkaka's bill that would essentially let the Island secede from the Union in a generation or two). PR has a much stronger sense of national identity right now. They have their own Olympics teams. Statehood? They should be cut free to be independent. Of course, they don't want that either. They want to be able to act like an independent country, but for the US to pay the bills. That's why they've always opted for the status quo thus far.
Oct '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
These are the same arguments used to hold back Oklahoma (too native), New Mexico (too Hispanic), and Hawaii (too Hawaiian) from getting statehood.
The people on that island are American citizens. It isn't right to pretend that they aren't.
Mar '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
What amazes me when this question is brought up is how little attention is paid to the matter of whether the residents of Puerto Rico even want to become a state. In the last serious survey I saw done of this the overwhelming majority favored the status quo. That was some time ago and some readings I have seen indicate a change in sentiment, but do a solid majority actually now desire this? Does anyone even know that basic question?
Edited on March 19, 2012 at 11:58pmJun '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
It survived because it didn't become a habit.
Nov '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
To me, the question is "why should WE want them as a State of the Union?" What can Porto Rico offer to the US that we do not have already?
Oct '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
That's kinda the question I'm posing.
Roberto, you're right and that's why I didn't address the argument about them being treated unfairly. The analysis from their perspective is straight forward, but from ours it's not discussed much.
Embittered Redleg, the question isn't whether they're citizens it's whether they should become a state and why?
Douglas, I think the disparity between Quebec and the rest of Canada is much greater, if not the same. It's a reason why you want to have one predominant language in a nation.
So I guess another question to consider is: When should we admit a new state to the union, if ever?
Mar '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
It is not "another question" it is the only question. We have not admitted a new state into the Union since 1959 and in that case it was with the overwhelming support of the citizenry there, is that the criteria? Prior to that in the westward expansion a sense of Manifest Destiny drove us.
What is the criteria in this day and age? Economic? Cultural? Any and all who find the principles in the Declaration and Constitution to be their's as well and wish to join the compact?
Aug '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
I don't think they will ever become a state and if they did it would be to the Democrats' advantage. Unions are deeply entrenched, the utilities are public (and mediocre to boot), and corruption is sadly all too common. The culture is not that different from ours; less country, more salsa. When it come to the economy the question is more complicated. The pharmaceutical companies employ a lot of people, taking full advantage of an educated labor pool, paying them about half or three-quarters what a comparable worker would earn in the states. If PR became a state, its a safe bet they would leave or downsize.
Mar '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
bereket kelile
Douglas, I think the disparity between Quebec and the rest of Canada is much greater, if not the same. It's a reason why you want to have one predominant language in a nation.
You'll get no argument from me about the language issue. Nothing will fracture a country like competing languages. When the Eastern Roman Empire started taking on a Greek cultural character (and eventually became the Byzantine Empire) it spelled the end of a united Roman state. Austria-Hungary was always shaky. And Yugoslavia? Hell, their languages were at least similar and we still know how they ended up.
I look at the "no English requirement" crowd the same way I look at the open borders people: "Are you insane? Do you know what the result would be if we actually flung those borders open?"
Language is the same way. Why in Heaven would you want a force of disunity like competing languages? This is why you insist that immigrants assimilate. As long as they're a Spanish culture, making PR a state won't make them any more American than if we admitted Germany or Kazakhstan.
Mar '12
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
I completed this audio documentary on Puerto Rico statehood, and Republicans stand to gain the most (believe it or not). http://www.solidprinciples.com/index.php/podcast/episode-33/
Feb '11
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Roberto: What amazes me when this question is brought up is how little attention is paid to the matter of whether the residents of Puerto Rico even want to become a state.
Edited 9 hours ago
If they had to choose between in and out, without the hybrid status quo, we'd find out what they really want.
Oct '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Those are good considerations but we'll also have to get pretty specific. Obviously, it would be ridiculous to consider some country on the other side of the earth for statehood. Practically speaking, we're probably talking about the territories in the Pacific and Caribbean as likely candidates.
I guess we can also consider whether to boot a state out, like Hawaii. Of course, then we really can say that Obama was born in a foreign country.
Oct '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Embittered Redleg: These are the same arguments used to hold back Oklahoma (too native), New Mexico (too Hispanic), and Hawaii (too Hawaiian) from getting statehood.
The people on that island are American citizens. It isn't right to pretend that they aren't. · 22 hours ago
You are talking about a time when America knew who it was. We had a strong national identity and people assimilated because we made it difficult not to, and they wanted to be a part of a self-assured people.
No so now. We have already lost the battle with Hispanics in general, and many other national groups who can maintain their old identity.
Let PR become an independent country. As for the argument that they are already citizens, they can freely relocate to the mainland if their desire is to maintain that citizenship.
Oct '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Roberto: In the last serious survey I saw done of this the overwhelming majority favored the status quo. That was some time ago and some readings I have seen indicate a change in sentiment, but do a solid majority actually now desire this? Does anyone even know that basic question?
Edited 21 hours ago
The answer is "no," statehood is NOT desired by a "solid majority." Statehood and enhanced status quo (is that an oxymoron?) pretty much split the vote, with a relative handful desiring independence.
And this is purely anecdotal, but the people who I know who favor statehood do so for economic reasons, not cultural reasons. They'd favor becoming a province of Canada if it were an economic benefit.
For my money, until a substantial majority of the island agree to make English the primary language, the statehood question doesn't turn on what's in PR's best interest. It's what's in the USA's best interest.
(Or maybe I'm just cranky and tired of starting every phone conversation with "no hablo español. ¿habla usted inglés?")
Jul '10
Re: Puerto Rico: America's Quebec?
Is there a reason we still have any territories? Cut them all loose unless they are willing to become states and change their governance to conform to American standards instead of banana republics.