Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Coming home last night with Papa Toad from a very interesting and lovely and all-too-rare date, we discovered that one of the headlights on his car was not working. I was driving as we came through a nearby town, and I maintained the speed limit as it went from 40 mph to 55 mph. A car came up fast behind me, and got very close to my rear end. I slowed my speed down, in the hopes that the car would pass me, since it was a two-lane highway at that point. Instead, the car got closer and closer. I tapped my breaks, indicating my displeasure with the fact that I could no longer see the other car's headlights because it was so close to my rear bumper, hoping that the car would pass me since I was only going about 42 mph at this point. So, of course, the other car turned on the cop lights -- it was a state trooper out to harass another citizen.
When the officer came up to my car, I was shaking with anger, but calmly said to him as I obediently handed over license and registration, "You know, it made me very uncomfortable having you so close to my backside there." He asked me if that was why I brake-tapped him, I said, "Yes." Then he asked me where I was coming from and where I was going, and I told him. After he gave me the ticket for a missing headlight, which Papa Toad and I have 24 hours to correct so we don't have to pay a fine, I drove off, but I was so angry.
What right did that trooper have to know where I was going or what I was doing? The only "law" I broke was having a headlight out, which we had only noticed that evening. Why do troopers do that -- come right up to people and unsafely get up their rear?!? And why did I meekly and compliantly tell the man where I had been and where I was going? I said to Papa Toad on the way home that I should have told the trooper that it was none of his business. Which is true. I hate the fact that the trooper clearly believed he had the power and the right to know my personal business. I wanted to have said something smart-aleck like, "I went across the river to see my dealer" or "I'm a ho, he's my pimp. Business has been slow tonight, are you busy?" but I wouldn't have gotten away with just the ticket.
Was this another instance of state over-reach? As a good conservative, should I have told the officer that it was none of his business why I was driving about at night on a state highway, or was I right to be meek as a little lamb, allowing the guy the satisfaction of having the power to be a royal pain in the... back bumper?
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Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Most state troopers are conservatives and frequently called on to place themselves in dangerous situations. From your account of the incident he was courteous and doing his job in a professional manner. Since you decided to drive with one headlight he had every right to pull you over. If you have any idea why he did it you failed to convey it. It would be interesting to hear his side; I bet it would be quite different.
Feb '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Sure, he had the authority to pull me over for driving without one of my headlights. Did he have to come so close to my car, driving right behind my bumper for close to 1/2 a mile? Was he trying to provoke me into breaking a law? Was he right to do so?
I'll bet his story is something like this: I saw a car with a headlight out that was in every other respect obeying the law. I tried to provoke the driver into doing something illegal. When the driver failed to do so, I pulled the driver over. She turned out to have a completely clean license, a valid registration and inspection, proof of insurance, so after interrogating her to find out why she was out on the roads at midnight, I gave her a ticket and sent her on her way.
But Why did he have to try to provoke me? And what right did he have to know my business?
Oct '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Your business is not his business, but it really didn't amount to more than chit-chat. As LibJim above says, he was courteous, and the story has another side.
But... add it to your list of minor infractions against your personal privacy, and if you are feeling in the mood for meaningless martyrdom, re-read the list and ask yourself how thin can you afford for your skin to be.
May '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
I had the same experience once. I was driving too fast on some beautiful backroads of New Hampshire on a sunny autumn afternoon. A policeman pulled me over and asked me suspiciously where I had been and where I was going.
I, too, answered meekly, and later felt annoyed with myself and wished I had declined to answer.
I got the distinct impression that he liked feeling and displaying his power over the citizenry. Galling.
Feb '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
My concern is not just because I got annoyed at getting a ticket last night.
If I, a generally law-abiding person, will comply meekly with requests that are none of the business of the state, because I fear the power of the state, at what point do I draw the line? Why can I not tell the trooper that he was behaving badly? He gave me no reason why he had to drive unsafely behind me for such a distance. He could have simply pulled me over and given me a ticket, but that is not what he chose to do.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
More and more, police are fine collectors for the locality or state. And they are given less leeway to use their common sense and discretion, which ultimately turns them into drones. They are looking for big fish, but small fish will do, so anytime they see an infraction they pull you over and start the process. Starting with your license they run that through a computer and if you have a clean driving record that's good but if you have had other tickets, well that's bad and you won't get any break like a "warning". Next it's alcohol and drugs. I've been asked that question (drugs) being pulled over with an expired inspection sticker.
I have worse stories than that, but they are too long. There is no question in my mind that we are getting very close to a police state.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Mama Toad:
If I, a generally law-abiding person, will comply meekly with requests that are none of the business of the state, because I fear the power of the state, at what point do I draw the line? Why can I not tell the trooper that he was behaving badly? He gave me no reason why he had to drive unsafely behind me for such a distance. He could have simply pulled me over and given me a ticket, but that is not what he chose to do. ·
You are right to be afraid and meek. They have a heck of a lot of power and if they are aggravated they will use it. You could write a letter to the police chief and the town newspaper. The fact that you did not know the car following you so provocatively was actually a police car caused you unnecessary alarm and created an unsafe situation. Police need to be responsible and no doubt if a cop saw you doing to another car what he did he would cite you for reckless driving.
Police are always preaching "safety" but that's mostly a pretense.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Police are government unionized workers and while they all are into law enforcement, I wouldn't call them "conservative" as a group. I bet half of all law enforcement types vote Democrat
I'm tired of hearing what a "tough job" police have. Many of them don't do the "tough" part very well, like go into crime-ridden neighborhoods and take on the big boys. They like to harass ordinary citizens who can afford to pay fines.
Dec '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
I suppose his questions are more geared to observing your behavior, looking for drunkenness or other signs of DUI rather than actually gleaning information. Still, I wonder if you'd get in more trouble for refusing to answer or lying about it. I'm sure I also would have been too intimidated, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to answer, "I went over the river and through the woods to visit Grandma's house and now I'm on my way home sweet home!"
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Franco
Police are government unionized workers and while they all are into law enforcement, I wouldn't call them "conservative" as a group. I bet half of all law enforcement types vote Democrat
I'm tired of hearing what a "tough job" police have. Many of them don't do the "tough" part very well, like go into crime-ridden neighborhoods and take on the big boys. They like to harass ordinary citizens who can afford to pay fines. · Sep 27 at 6:39am
Spoken like a true Lib.
Feb '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
liberal jim
Franco
Police are government unionized workers and while they all are into law enforcement, I wouldn't call them "conservative" as a group. I bet half of all law enforcement types vote Democrat
I'm tired of hearing what a "tough job" police have. Many of them don't do the "tough" part very well, like go into crime-ridden neighborhoods and take on the big boys. They like to harass ordinary citizens who can afford to pay fines. · Sep 27 at 6:39am
Spoken like a true Lib. · Sep 27 at 7:11am
Wow, liberal jim, when you start name-calling, you've already lost the argument.
Apr '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
I could be wrong, but in my experience cops come in two flavors: true hero types who humbly serve the people, and power-trippers who are cops because they enjoy having everyone lined up and bent over so that they can benevolently decide not to spank them today.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Mama Toad: I have no idea what his intentions were and neither do you. But let me suggest he was probably running your tags prior to pulling you over that is standard procedure. His “unsafe” driving is your perception of what he was doing. The questions he asked were standard questions officers are trained to ask and are not as intrusive as you want to portray them. Your posts are telling me a lot more about you than they are the officer.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Mama Toad: I have no idea what his intentions were and neither do you. But let me suggest he was probably running your tags prior to pulling you over that is standard procedure. His “unsafe” driving is your perception of what he was doing. The questions he asked were standard questions officers are trained to ask and are not as intrusive as you want to portray them. Your posts are telling me a lot more about you than they are the officer.
Feb '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
liberal jim, my question is not why he pulled me over. I said at the beginning that I was driving without a headlight, a ticketable offense. I said he had every right to pull me over. What he did not have was the right to drive so close to me for such a long distance that I could not see his headlights in my rear-view mirror because his car was too close to mine, and I had the right to tell him that where I had been that night was none of his business.
My posts are not the only ones that reveal something about the poster.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
liberal jim
Franco
I bet half of all law enforcement types vote Democrat
I'm tired of hearing what a "tough job" police have. Many of them don't do the "tough" part very well, like go into crime-ridden neighborhoods and take on the big boys. They like to harass ordinary citizens who can afford to pay fines. ·
Spoken like a true Lib. ·
I look at your name. I don't know what it means, then you use the root as a pejorative. You're not making sense. Then again, so-called liberals often don't make sense.
Feb '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Franco:
There is no question in my mind that we are getting very close to a police state. · Sep 27 at 6:22am
Really? How do you define "police state"?
Jun '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Mama Toad, it appears you knew you had a headlight out and drove the car home that night anyway. That's a choice you made, the vehicle was illegal and dangerous, now you are paying the price for that decision. It seems you are OK with the punishment, you just don't like the way it was enforced. I am not a cop, but it seems one very dangerous thing they do is stop cars for simple infractions and end up confronting, unknowingly, an armed and dangerous criminal. I too have had an incident or two in my life where cops stopped me while driving and made me get out of the car, once correctly and once incorrectly. When they were totally wrong, I cooperated anyway, and opened a locked briefcase for them to inspect the contents. They had no right but I thought of the cut off nose to spite face theory of behavior and decided the lesser of issues would be to accede to their request. You did the right thing as well. They have a tough job, some do it with better finesse than others. All in all, it sounds like you actually were lucky.
Feb '11
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Franco
.....
I'm tired of hearing what a "tough job" police have. Many of them don't do the "tough" part very well, like go into crime-ridden neighborhoods and take on the big boys. They like to harass ordinary citizens who can afford to pay fines. · Sep 27 at 6:39am
I'll grant you "some" but "many" is a descriptor too far. And I'd bet that the % of police officers that "like to harass ordinary citizens who can afford to pay fines" is not as high as you seem to imagine.
Sep '10
Re: Police Power and the Conservative Goody-two-shoes
Ed G.
Franco:
There is no question in my mind that we are getting very close to a police state. · Sep 27 at 6:22am
Really? How do you define "police state"? · Sep 27 at 7:41am
Where you can be randomly stopped and searched. When there are so many laws, most citizens are breaking at least one at all times. Where, as Mama Toad suggests, ordinary citizens are intimidated by policemen and have real (and quite valid) fears that unless she complies meekly with the officer she may receive some form of retribution.
When red light cameras and other devices spy on citizens. When prisons are run for profit, which actually happens here in America.
When there is an agency called "Homeland Security" that continues to grab more power and authority over ordinary law-abiding citizens.
Not too far from a police state.