Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Diane Ellis, Ed. ·
Jun 2, 2011 at 4:30pm
Claire, I'll see your obnoxious dancing man arrested at the Jefferson Memorial for what you deem "normal, happy" behavior, and raise you one perfectly polite, hearing impaired college student, detained by police for taking a photograph of a Maryland light rail train.
If there's one thing we expect out of our law enforcement in America, it's to know and enforce the law. Outrageous incidents like this don't do much to inspire confidence.
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Apr '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Thank you PATRIOT Act. Instead of devoting resources to catching real criminals, we're harassing people taking photos of trains. Question: are there signs posted declaring photography to be against the law, etc? It seems we find out what's supposedly in the PATRIOT Act piece by piece as our liberty is eroded on what appears to be a selective basis. And when was the last time someone blew up or hijacked a train? Personally, I'll take the risk if it means getting rid of law enforcement tactics such as this.
May '10
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
But does the PATRIOT Act actually make it illegal to photograph trains? Or is it simply another one of those boogeymen arguments people make when they want to intimidate one into submission?
Apr '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Pretty unbelievable. I listened to about half of the video before I had to turn it off. Thank goodness the transit authority publicly admitted the officers were completely wro
Jan '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
I'm not a lawyer, but that's OK for now, because I'm only concerned with common sense. We're discussing the common sense interpretation of probable cause, and this is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse.
A mere correlation is not a cause. A possible correlation of taking a picture is not probable cause of a terrorist plan.
If a man is taking a picture, and you insert yourself in front of his camera, you cannot construe that as him taking your picture. After all, if you change the circumstances, it's your fault. You can't then claim that you didn't give him permission, therefore he must stop.
Second, it is true that someone who would plan to blow up a train may very likely take a picture of the train as part of his planning. However, that alone doesn't make photography evidence of a planned crime. After all, by that same logic, a terrorist may buy a ticket and ride the train, to discover its route -- does that make ticket-buying evidence? Of course not.
Mar '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
What the heck does his "hearing impairment" have to do with anything, other than as an attempt to engender sympathy for him? I noticed no obvious lack of understanding when he was asked for ID and refused to provide it.
Jul '10
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
The Patriot Act isn't the problem; incompetent law enforcement officials are the problem. The MTA have since admitted there is no provision banning the filming of trains. The officers asking for ID is understandable given the assumption that the filming was illegal, however, the fact four of them didn't know the law leaves something to be desired in their training.
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
FeliciaB
But does the PATRIOT Act actually make it illegal to photograph trains? Or is it simply another one of those boogeymen arguments people make when they want to intimidate one into submission?
No. As Goddess of Discord mentioned, the MTA later acknowledged that the PATRIOT Act does not outlaw the photographing of trains. That was completely made up, which is why I think the incident is so infuriating. If the law had actually forbade the photographing of trains, we could debate whether that was a good, worthwhile policy or not. But the law doesn't forbid it, and we have a bunch of officers who're making laws up as they please.
Dec '10
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Like the above posters said, I think the biggest problem is that the officers didn't know the law. They weren't exactly rude or hostile, mostly just imposing. The kid could have just given him the ID and it probably would have taken care of the issue. I don't want to bad mouth the cops. They seem just to be overzealous in their duty and their (poor) understanding of the law. The bigger problem is about the law itself. If we surround ourselves with laws that are so numerous and so arbitrary (maybe not the right word) then this is the sort of situation we find ourselves in.
Jul '10
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
"What the heck does his 'hearing impairment' have to do with anything, other than as an attempt to engender sympathy for him?" No kidding. Why not: "Black Cops Detain White Student For Taking Photos Of Trains[?]" Oh, right....
Dec '10
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
I think law enforcement officers are really caught between a rock and a hard place. Deep down inside they really want to catch the bad guys, deter the terrorists, etc. The problem is that in order to do that they must selectively target those most likely to be worthy of the officers' attention. Unfortunately, however, if they go after shifty looking young males as criminals or darker skinned guys shouting Allahu Akbar as terrorists then they'll be fired for "profiling." The only outlet they have is to act like school yard bullies to honest citizens. We ask them to do a job then the PC police tie their hands so they can't do it.
Mar '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Diane Ellis, Ed.
No. As Goddess of Discord mentioned, the MTA later acknowledged that the PATRIOT Act does not outlaw the photographing of trains. That was completely made up, which is why I think the incident is so infuriating. If the law had actually forbade the photographing of trains, we could debate whether that was a good, worthwhile policy or not. But the law doesn't forbid it, and we have a bunch of officers who're making laws up as they please. · Jun 2 at 5:28pm
No, the law doesn't forbid photographing trains, but I have to assume it does forbid photographing trains with the intent of blowing one up. (Remember, the law didn't forbid attending flight school, either.) Of course, it's rather difficult to determine whether the photographer here was an innocent soul or a terror suspect, since he declined to provide the cops with ID.
Feb '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Diane Ellis, Ed.
No. As Goddess of Discord mentioned, the MTA later acknowledged that the PATRIOT Act does not outlaw the photographing of trains. That was completely made up, which is why I think the incident is so infuriating. If the law had actually forbade the photographing of trains, we could debate whether that was a good, worthwhile policy or not. But the law doesn't forbid it, and we have a bunch of officers who're making laws up as they please. · Jun 2 at 5:28pm
Why are you so sure that cops are "making laws up as they please"? Isn't it at least as likely, more likely in my opinion, that they were just wrong about the law?
Feb '11
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
The cops were wrong in this case; they acted terribly after a certain point. But I'm not very much shocked or outraged by it. In fact, I'm generally ok with cops sweating someone based on circumstances that wouldn't necessarily pass court muster; I've been on the receiving end of such treatment myself. Of course there is a risk that it becomes less an effective policing tool and more of an ego trip; I think that's exactly what happened here. But let's be reasonable: in this instance there was no violence, no physical contact, and no false arrest. I'm willing to give the cops some leeway even if there is a risk that they sometimes go too far as they did here.
Re: Police Detain Hearing Impaired Student for Taking Photo of Train
Ed Gorz
Why are you so sure that cops are "making laws up as they please"? Isn't it at least as likely, more likely in my opinion, that they were just wrong about the law? · Jun 3 at 6:44am
You're right. It's perhaps too cynical to believe they enjoyed making up laws as they went along. But it was sad that the student knew more about the law in this case than the law enforcers.
I am curious whether the citizen had a right to record the police in public. They repeatedly instructed him to stop recording them, and he did not comply. Does anyone know the law concerning recording police perform their duties in a public space?