Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
While looking for something completely different, I just happened across this photograph of two IDF infantry instructors preparing for a combat exercise. The IDF's Flickr stream describes their program thus:
The Infantry Instructors Course includes a "Field Week" during which soldiers experience drills, live fire, combat exercises, sleeping out in the open, and other aspects of operational activity. The course is held in the Infantry Training School in southern Israel and is attended mostly by girls.
I could deliver a disquisition here about women in the Israeli army and gender roles in Israel as refracted through the common experience of the army, but we can talk about that another time. I'll say just that these young women look beautiful and happy, and it looks as though they're having a lot of fun.
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Jan '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
It's just like summer camp, but with guns and live-fire combat exercises instead of wienie-roasts and kayaking.
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Ajax Telamônios
It's just like summer camp, but with guns and live-fire combat exercises instead of wienie-roasts and kayaking. · Jul 17 at 11:26pm
They might have the wienie-roasts. (100%-beef, though. No mystery meat in the IDF.)
May '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Yeah, because having fun is what preparing for combat is all about.
I think this attitude may be part of why the Israelis got their butts handed to them in their last combat fun session in Lebanon.
The Israeli military has long been over rated.
Edited on Jul 17, 2011 at 11:37pmMay '10
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Skyler: Yeah, because having fun is what preparing for combat is all about.
I think this attitude may be part of why the Israelis got their butts handed to them in their last combat fun session in Lebanon.
The Israeli military has long been over rated.
Their butts handed to them? Explain sir. From what I gather, the Israelis operated under considerable ROE constraints.
Overrated? How so? I'd like to see the best of Marines against the best of the IDF.
Mar '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Ms Glick can explain that the problem with the IDF was its civilian political leadership, a situation not unlike that of the US.
Feb '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
My son can too. He was there, on the ground. From beginning to end.
Though he might include some of the military leadership as well, the kind that plans their civilian years well in advance.
Edited on Jul 18, 2011 at 12:10amFeb '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Michael Labeit
How so? I'd like to see the best of Marines against the best of the IDF. · Jul 17 at 11:54pm
Has the word "like" changed so drastically since I left the US?
May '10
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Israel P.
Michael Labeit
How so? I'd like to see the best of Marines against the best of the IDF. · Jul 17 at 11:54pm
Has the word "like" changed so drastically since I left the US? · Jul 18 at 12:08am
Depends. When did you leave us?
May '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Michael Labeit
Overrated? How so? I'd like to see the best of Marines against the best of the IDF. · Jul 17 at 11:54pm
It's not a football game. The "best" of the IDF are certainly fine, as are the "best" of the USMC. It's the entire organization that counts, not a few individuals here and there.
I'd gladly fight with Israelis on my flanks as they are over rated but generally competent (and I don't use that term for but a few militaries). They did not enhance their reputation the last time they were out the gate. ROE or no ROE, they were afraid/reluctant to engage the enemy and withdrew. I guess they didn't want to get hurt. They still have a lot of potential, but they did not do well that time. Lack of political will, perhaps? That's part of the make up of the military, too. If your government is afraid to use the military, then it's not going to be effective.
So now they put women in the infantry? Sorry, but the infantry's job is too serious for such frivolity.
May '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
On another read I see that these women are infantry instructors, not necessarily infantry. I guess one way to maximize the number of effective soldiers is to use women as instructors. Good luck to them. I hope they can get that offensive spirit back in their military.
Feb '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Michael Labeit
Israel P.
Michael Labeit
How so? I'd like to see the best of Marines against the best of the IDF. · Jul 17 at 11:54pm
Has the word "like" changed so drastically since I left the US? · Jul 18 at 12:08am
Depends. When did you leave us? · Jul 18 at 12:13am
Thirty-eight years ago.
May '10
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Skyler
Michael Labeit
They did not enhance their reputation the last time they were out the gate. ROE or no ROE, they were afraid/reluctant to engage the enemy and withdrew. I guess they didn't want to get hurt. They still have a lot of potential, but they did not do well that time. Lack of political will, perhaps? That's part of the make up of the military, too. If your government is afraid to use the military, then it's not going to be effective.
Afraid? Do you know the cause behind this reluctance? If its a lack of political will, then the U.S. military is easily as guilty. We've got enemies that we haven't even engaged thus far because of a lack of political will, e.g., the government of Iran. But nonetheless, the political will of the government is distinct from the fighting force. Just because the Israeli government is unwilling doesn't mean the IDF is incapable. You however imply the latter from the former.
Edited on Jul 18, 2011 at 2:24amApr '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Less fun..
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/50590785.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=E41C9FE5C4AA0A14430FF3EDB6939D8712766BAEAAAAEE40B1980498FE5AA78AB01E70F2B3269972
May '10
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Skyler
Michael Labeit
ROE or no ROE, they were afraid/reluctant to engage the enemy and withdrew. I guess they didn't want to get hurt.
Take a look at Afghanistan. 10 years out, with pitiable results. Thus far, the greatest fighting force in the world as been miserably unable to put a damper on the insurgency there. What shall we conclude from this? That U.S. forces are averse to getting their hands dirty?
No, its always about political will when a obviously superior power fails nevertheless to eliminate a clearly inferior threat. So far, the IDF has defended Israel against 22 dictatorships. It could make Lebanon uninhabitable in an afternoon if it wanted. That it has not promptly ended the threats posed by Hamas and Hezbollah does not imply that it cannot. Unfortunately, the Israeli government refuses to proceed in that way. The IDF is but a tool. Its effective, but the Israeli government is unwilling to use it properly.
Edited on Jul 18, 2011 at 2:25amMay '10
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Israel doesn't seem to me to be a country uniquely stricken by egalitarian sentiments. I'd wager that the permission given to women to assume combat roles derives more from the fact that the IDF is small and tasked with defending a nation surrounded by hostile neighbors than anything else. If worse came to worst, you'd endorse the enlistment of your sister or your wife if it meant the protection of your family. The Israeli experience is different. They've been invaded before. The enemy is just a few kilometers away.
May '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
"It could make Lebanon uninhabitable in an afternoon if it wanted."
Sure, but they ran into a bit of difficulty and instead of pressing ahead, they left with their tail between their legs. My understanding is that they didn't know how to react when faced with stiff resistance. The officers' and soldiers' delays and indecisions are what prompted the government to call them back. The were surprised that the enemy didn't act as incompetently as they expected and the Israelis pulled back instead of responding to the fight they were in. The lesson? Punch them in the nose and you win.
The Israelis are a fine military force and they have a lot going for them. That doesn't mean that their reputation is not overstated.
Mar '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Michael Labeit
The IDF is but a tool. Its effective, but the Israeli government is unwilling to use it properly.
I would hope the present Israeli government is a vast improvement over the previous one - according to Ms Glick it is, and we shall soon find out.
In the hypothetical contest between the US Marines and the IDF, Mr Obama would take away the Marines' guns and tie their hands and feet, so I don't think it would be a fair comparison.
It's always a head-in-hands moment for me when I see a Marine salute Mr Obama - I have to remind myself they are saluting the office, not the empty suit.
Edited on Jul 18, 2011 at 2:58amMay '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Michael Labeit
Take a look at Afghanistan. 10 years out, with pitiable results. Thus far, the greatest fighting force in the world as been miserably unable to put a damper on the insurgency there. What shall we conclude from this? That U.S. forces are averse to getting their hands dirty? · Jul 18 at 2:23am
Pitiable? Look again, my friend. The enemy always gets a vote, but when we fight them, we always win, we don't crawl back home if the enemy shows up to fight.
You're being intentionally provocative without cause. The Israelis are pretty good, but not the super humans that some would portray them as.
May '11
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
David Williamson
In the hypothetical contest between the US Marines and the IDF, · Jul 18 at 2:53am
It's not so really hypothetical, now, is it? A Marine Corps officer stopped three Israeli tanks with his M1911 pistol back in 1983. A friend of mine flew helicopters escorting dignitaries ashore and Israeli jets "thumped" them daily (fly so close over them that the helo has a dramatic drop in altitude). The Israelis, despite some popular talk among "conservatives" has not always been so friendly. They spy on us (Jonathon Pollard) and they have tried to intimidate our military as I've noted. They're quite lucky we're so disciplined. I'm sure there are many more instances that I'm not aware of.
May '10
Re: Photo: Female IDF Infantry Instructors Prepare for Combat Exercise
Skyler
Michael Labeit
Pitiable? Look again, my friend. The enemy always gets a vote, but when we fight them, we always win, we don't crawl back home if the enemy shows up to fight.
You're being intentionally provocative without cause. The Israelis are pretty good, but not the super humans that some would portray them as.
Yes, pitiable. Nazism was ended just a few years after it became a problem militarily. Now, after 10 years what has Operation Enduring Freedom yielded us? An insurgency that is still intact and still motivated, a corrupt, non-compliant, and essentially useless Afghan government, and billions of dollars in expenses. To wit, a waste. The insurgents are laughing at us. Now, either the U.S. military has been staffed by cowards, or something else is contributing to our ineffectiveness.
What makes you think that the IDF backed down? Where did this "understanding" come from?