Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
As reported on the FoxNews website:
"...nearly 90 professors and administrators connected to the Jesuit-founded school in Washington, D.C., has sent Ryan, R-Wis., a letter saying he’s misused Catholic doctrine to support his deficit-reducing, GOP House budget."
Read the entire article here.
And I think a more interesting question is whether the objections raised by the Georgetown Nearly 90 to Ryan's side references that his budget supports the Catholic doctrine of subsidiarity (moving welfare, food and other safety net programs to the more local level) reveal that their concept of the role of the federal government is closer to Wilsonian Progressivism than the principles on which the nation was founded? This remark may have revealed their underlying ideological position (emphasis mine):
"...we would be remiss … if we did not challenge your continuing misuse of Catholic teaching to defend a budget plan that decimates food programs for struggling families, radically weakens protections for the elderly and sick and gives more tax breaks to the wealthiest few."
And if the federal government is responsible for caring for the poor and dispossessed rather than private individuals and charitable institutions then hasn't the state usurped the opportunity for individuals to act ethically and benevolently on their own or through their charitable or religious institutions?
Finally, Is the position of the Georgetown Nearly 90 less Catholic than they would like to think for the very reason stated in the preceding paragraph? Are all charitable efforts supposed to rendered onto Caesar? If not, then perhaps a certain percentage? If so, what percent?
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Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Brian Watt
Let me know if you need any more question marks. I've saved a whole slew of them.
Nah, I get them wholesale.
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Basil Fawlty
Never said it did, KC. I was simply responding to your specific question about whether liberalism and morality are mutually exclusive. Sometimes they can be.
Agreed. No problem with that from me.
And, in some degree as a reply to Western Chauvinist, I think liberalism is ...
... but I don't think that liberals are necessarily immoral.
So, if you see Jesuits and say, they're liberal ... you can't immediately leap to the accusation that they're not Catholic or moral anymore. Some may be morally wrong for other reasons, and some may be disobedient ... OK, some really are ... but not just because they're liberal. Something else explains the sin, it isn't just the liberalism.
I know plenty of guys who are anti-war, pacifist whackos who sneered at Dubya ... and yet, if you needed a confessor or retreat leader, or someone to visit your dying relative in the hospital and spend all night with her ... these guys would do that job with grace and love.
I defend those guys, and I'm proud to do it.
Apr '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
KC Mulville:
You don’t have to take my word for it, but here’s my word anyway: most of the working Jesuits (and from other orders, to be fair) aren’t political at all. They do their jobs, try to serve God and the people directly in front of them. 95% of the time, politics doesn’t come up. So when I see sweeping statements about liberal Jesuits, I understand why, but there’s so little truth there is in it...The vast majority of Jesuits are not political, but they get swept into the same generalization. Those are the people I leap to defend. And as you all know, I take pride in defending them. These were my brothers, and I defend my brothers.
Keep your shirt on K.C. When I said I was looking for your comment it's because I thought your opinion would be worth getting - in the same way I look for the opinions of grizzled Marine Corps veterans in matters of war and foreign policy instead of Peace Corps Volunteers or Agency Spokesmen.
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Herkybird
Keep your shirt on K.C.
Ha! Well, for your sakes, you'd better hope so. My chiseled six-pack abs aren't what they used to be. Actually, I'm more keg-shaped these days.
And, not that it would surprise anyone, when I first read "nearly 90 professors and administrators connected to the Jesuit-founded school," I immediately closed my eyes and wondered, dear Lord, what have they done now?
Aug '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
While I won't interfere in the KC - Brian discussion on the market for question marks (I am heartened by KC's refusal to accept a handout of free ones, by the way), I did read Rep Ryan's response that Mama Toad links to. Help yourself.
I have been flagellating the expired equine for a while regarding what poverty in the US really means, but I came across this article in Forbes that explains it better than I.
The money line,
I would only add that we have now been actively, continuously helping them for over 50 years - while measuring 'poverty' incorrectly.
Feb '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Thanks, Instugator, for reposting me -- and here is the C-Span video of Paul Ryan himself in his address at Georgetown this morning.
Apr '12
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
KC Mulville
So, howdo we get from criticizing Paul Ryan to dictator support? · 1 hour ago
We get from support of communist dictators to the Georgetown 90 through their ideologies.
Communism is built on Marxism which envisions economic class strife and envy as the motive force in history. Marxists, communists, and now modern liberals proclaim the importance of minimizing class strife by minimizing variations in income and wealth. They now all agree that the messianic (yes, I chose this word in light of the discussed 90) worker's rise will not occur.
Agitators must organize "the poor" and denigrate conservative thinking; they must grapple the levers of power to impose their ideology.
This is fundamentally a moral question. Humans sitting in judgement of their fellow's wealth and income while seeking to utilize the instruments of government power all the while working to seize their wealth (a product of labor both physical and mental) then spend it in accord with their own desires and needs is an attempt to mold the behavior of absolute strangers. And ultimately these leftists buttress their desires for "social justice" by threat of criminal or civil punishment.
How is this not a moral concern?
May '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Conservative Catholics have learned over long decades of experience that Catholics such as the Georgetown Nearly Ninety are more interested in changing Church teaching than in conforming themselves to it, either in their personal lives or in the public square.
They use it for manipulative political purposes, the way liberals use, say, the First Amendment. Or the rest of the Constitution.
Ryan, on the other hand, is clearly a man of faith, who studies Church teaching in order to learn it, and then conscientiously applies it in his sphere of life and work.
Here's a great line from him just posted at the Corner, in answer to those who say he's a Randian Objectivist:
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 6:49pmMar '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Pseudodionysius
Sounds like the Church might want to divest themselves of this institution. What are the reasons they haven't? Isn't it doing more harm than good to the faith? · 8 hours ago
Most of these schools long ago divested themselves of any pretense of control whether by the Catholic hierarchy directly (Bishops) or religious orders (the Jesuits in the case of Georgetown and others).
Peter Kreeft, the excellent professor at Boston College says BC stands for "Barely Catholic". He says for a Catholic college, the place feels more like a mission field.
Feb '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Is there anyone else here at Ricochet who wants Ryan to do more "Prosperity Podcasts" like the single one he did with Marco Rubio lo these many months ago? (I know he's been busy, but...)
Mar '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
People need to understand how the church works. This letter is so unimportant it doesn't even warrant any kind of official response. ·
I couldn't disagree with you more. This letter screams for a response from the Catholic Church, and from faithful Catholics in general. To not respond to it is to surrender the perception that these people are the Church, that this is what "real Catholicsm" stands for. It took John Paul II's personal rebuke of liberation theology advocates to finally reverse the notion that Catholicsim was melding with Marxism. Something similar needs to happen again.
If the Church doesn't respond strongly to this kind of thing, then the wolves in sheep's clothing win by default. There is very clearly a battle for the soul of this great church going on. This was an offensive by the other side. An authoritative response... by both the church and the faithful... is imperative if you want to avoid the same fate of mainstream denominations. When political and theological liberalism wins, the church begins to die. Increasingly empty pews have been proving that for years now.
Mar '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
katievs:
He's very much a fan of Rand's books, though, and recommends them highly. And yet he's a faithful Catholic. So liberals use that to either paint him as a hypocrite or a Randian.
So faithful people need to do a better job of explaining something: Rand was right for the wrong reasons. At least about most things. But she gets the big picture on human freedom right, and that's what makes her popular. Objectivism, to the vast majority of the fans of Atlas Shrugged, is a carnival sideshow. Interesting, but ultimately freakish and not something you'd do at home. You can applaud her stance on personal liberty while still opposing her stances on selfishness and faith.
May '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Douglas
He's very much a fan of Rand's books, though, and recommends them highly. And yet he's a faithful Catholic. So liberals use that to either paint him as a hypocrite or a Randian.
Here's the earlier part of the quote I quoted.
I read The Fountainhead. I enjoyed it, too, at least to a point. I found it thought-provoking, and interesting, just as Ryan says. I also thought it risibly bad both as literature and in its vision of human life and society. It was good for critiquing liberalism, though.
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 7:27pmMar '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
KC Mulville:
A - These were my brothers, and I defend my brothers.
B - But here’s a more general question … is being politically liberal … immoral?
A - As much guff as I give you about the Jesuits, I actually admire you for this stance. Honestly. No one hopes more than I do that people like you will once more make the order "Gods Marines" again. For this to happen though, I think it'll take both people like you and criticism like mine to push it there. We'll see, I guess. I honestly don't want to destroy the Jesuits. I want "Jesuit" to mean what it once meant: the foremost defenders of the Church and it's rules and traditions. And I'm not even Catholic. I just recognize the sheer value of the church to the world. I would fully rejoice if places like Georgetown became truly Catholic again because the Jesuits said "The cafeteria is closed". Angels would sing, truly.
B - Before the sixties, I would say no. Now? As long as liberalism by definition proudly embraces abortion and vice and deviant sexuality and the crushing of freedom... yes, it is now prima facie immoral.
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
I'd like to point out one small item that has been overlooked here. Georgetown, for all its liberalism, invited Ryan to come and speak.
They didn't shut him up or invite him to embarrass him, as Obama did a couple years ago. He was invited to offer his views, and was treated (as far as immediate reports claim) with respect. RedState has a nice little picture that says a lot:
Nothing. Apparently 12 was a generous estimate.
Aug '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
KC Mulville: I'd like to point out one small item that has been overlooked here. Georgetown, for all its liberalism, invited Ryan to come and speak.
They didn't shut him up or invite him to embarrass him, as Obama did a couple years ago. He was invited to offer his views, and was treated (as far as immediate reports claim) with respect. RedState has a nice little picture that says a lot:
Nothing. Apparently 12 was a generous estimate. · 6 minutes ago
I noticed it due to the ridicule the 'protest' received on Twitter. You are correct, KC - as far as I can tell he was treated with respect.
The "Nearly 90" has as much to do with Georgetown as the "Duke 88" had to do with Duke and for the same reasons.
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Well, it's a different world these days. I'm not so sure that the church needs Marines.
There was a time, in most countries, where Jesuits could impress the hell out of people (pun intended) with their long education and training. But that was when everyone else barely made it through high school. Until last century or so, even in Europe, only a handful went to school at all.
Now, there are about 2,000 4-year colleges in the United States. Education isn't so intimidating anymore.There ain't much religious shock and awe.
The great gift of the Jesuits is not their education or political cunning, although that's what history books claim. The great gift of the Jesuits is Ignatius' spirituality, and his discipline of prayer. That's what Jesuits need to give to the world, and to let that flourish.
On the other hand, if you live by politics, you die by politics. Leave that for someone else.
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Douglas
B - Before the sixties, I would say no. Now? As long as liberalism by definition proudly embraces abortion and vice and deviant sexuality and the crushing of freedom... yes, it is now prima facieimmoral.
Well, that's not a bad argument. If your political philosophy allows evil, then that's an immoral philosophy.
But I go back to my experience of those Jesuits, even the most liberal. They uniformly opposed abortion.
The essence of what drives liberal Catholics is Matthew 25. Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers ... When you face judgment and the Lord asks you how you helped your fellow man, liberals feel the urgency that God intended all of us to feel. That urgency is part and parcel of Christianity.
I'd say that conservative Catholics also feel that urgency, but because we also use our heads, we think that using coercive government power to fulfill it will make matters worse, not better.
Mar '12
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
I'm fascinated by this discussion thread, but I found this other point that Brian raised equally interesting.
This issue was very well discussed by Marvin Olasky in The Tragedy of American Compassion in the mid-nineties. The left holds that the government should have a large role in charitable activities. But, is there any way to prevent the government from usurping all responsibility for benevolent action? How can public and private benevolence co-exist? I have an increasingly difficult time understanding how government can be limited, but still engage in such actions.
Feb '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
KC -- I am glad for their own sakes that the Jesuits of your experience uniformly opposed abortion. And the Order itself has on its website a statement, "Standing for the Unborn."
Sadly, Jesuit institutions such as Fordham cannot say the same. Witness Grendel's post from several days ago, in which a self-described "feminist theologian" professor at Fordham appears on PBS and complains that the Vatican misunderstands the valuable work among the poor and downtrodden than motivates liberal Catholics embrace of "women's reproductive rights" (read: abortion). Admittedly that woman is not a Jesuit, but she represents a Jesuit-run university.
And few pro-lifers will ever forget Fr. Robert Drinan, S.J. (society of Jesus or Jesuit, for those who don't know) and the tacit support he received from Jesuit Boston College.
There are many other examples of Jesuits causing public scandal by their embrace of abortion within the folds of their social justice garment.