Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
As reported on the FoxNews website:
"...nearly 90 professors and administrators connected to the Jesuit-founded school in Washington, D.C., has sent Ryan, R-Wis., a letter saying he’s misused Catholic doctrine to support his deficit-reducing, GOP House budget."
Read the entire article here.
And I think a more interesting question is whether the objections raised by the Georgetown Nearly 90 to Ryan's side references that his budget supports the Catholic doctrine of subsidiarity (moving welfare, food and other safety net programs to the more local level) reveal that their concept of the role of the federal government is closer to Wilsonian Progressivism than the principles on which the nation was founded? This remark may have revealed their underlying ideological position (emphasis mine):
"...we would be remiss … if we did not challenge your continuing misuse of Catholic teaching to defend a budget plan that decimates food programs for struggling families, radically weakens protections for the elderly and sick and gives more tax breaks to the wealthiest few."
And if the federal government is responsible for caring for the poor and dispossessed rather than private individuals and charitable institutions then hasn't the state usurped the opportunity for individuals to act ethically and benevolently on their own or through their charitable or religious institutions?
Finally, Is the position of the Georgetown Nearly 90 less Catholic than they would like to think for the very reason stated in the preceding paragraph? Are all charitable efforts supposed to rendered onto Caesar? If not, then perhaps a certain percentage? If so, what percent?
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Comments:
Sep '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
I think those two names in particular tell you everything that you need to know.
Jun '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Pseudodionysius
I think those two names in particular tell you everything that you need to know. · 2 minutes ago
So, you would answer in the affirmative that their position is less Catholic than they would like to think....?
Jul '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
If the church is to be but an extension ( and cheerleader )of the federal government then Ayn Rand may well have been right about it too if this lunatic faction gets their way. How wrong can they be about this?
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 9:01amSep '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
And the article Where Have All the Jesuits Gone? at the Hoya.
Sep '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Brian Watt
Pseudodionysius
I think those two names in particular tell you everything that you need to know. · 2 minutes ago
So, you would answer in the affirmative that their position is less Catholic than they would like to think....? · 3 minutes ago
Put it this way: Georgetown has hosted the Vagina Monologues, actively promoted LBGTQ groups on campus, roundly criticized Cardinal Arinze's visit in 2003 when he dared to mention Catholic pro life doctrine during his plenary address (one or more gay faculty members harumphed on stage), and done everything possible to flout Catholic doctrine including having Planned Parenthood officials teach in their nursing school.
Their position is Catholic in the sense that they may have been baptized once.
Sep '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
George Weigel has a good piece on the Disoriented Catholic Left
Jun '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Pseudodionysius
Brian Watt
Pseudodionysius
I think those two names in particular tell you everything that you need to know. · 2 minutes ago
So, you would answer in the affirmative that their position is less Catholic than they would like to think....? · 3 minutes ago
Put it this way: Georgetown has hosted the Vagina Monologues, actively promoted LBGTQ groups on campus, roundly criticized Cardinal Arinze's visit in 2003 when he dared to mention Catholic pro life doctrine during his plenary address (one or more gay faculty members harumphed on stage), and done everything possible to flout Catholic doctrine including having Planned Parenthood officials teach in their nursing school.
Their position is Catholic in the sense that they may have been baptized once. · 1 minute ago
Sounds like the Church might want to divest themselves of this institution. What are the reasons they haven't? Isn't it doing more harm than good to the faith?
Jul '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Yeah Pseudo, they aren't exactly the sort of Catholics I'm friends with. The higher end church leaders would do will to avoid this pollution of their faith or else they will be in real trouble in terms of longevity.
Apr '12
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Brian Watt
Sounds like the Church might want to divest themselves of this institution. What are the reasons they haven't? Isn't it doing more harm than good to the faith? · 25 minutes ago
As I understand it, it's the same way Obama's Catholic Priest buddy to Rev. Wright was still around, and any number of politicians haven't been formally excommunicated: you have to be really, really, really bad to get a formal investigation, let alone a smack-down, which would be way before anybody got formally revoked.
I seem to remember that not long after the first rumbles about the Nun investigation in the Church started-- maybe five years back?-- I heard some similar ones about there being quiet words with those organizations that identified as Catholic but were not living up to it. I seem to remember a sudden surge in Catholic hospitals disassociating with abortuaries, too. USCCB is kinda notorious for turning a blind eye, IIRC.
Mar '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Paul Ryan didn't offend Catholics. He offended Jesuits. Increasingly, not the same thing.
Jun '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Have set the timer to see how long it takes K.C. to respond...tick, tick, tick...
Apr '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Brian Watt
Have set the timer to see how long it takes K.C. to respond...tick, tick, tick... · 13 minutes ago
Funny...As soon as I read this post I went straight to the comments looking for K.C.'s response. Where is he?
Jul '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Never mistake the Catholic Church's or any church's goals as being the same as conservative or libertarian goals. They are not the same.
Sep '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Sounds like the Church might want to divest themselves of this institution. What are the reasons they haven't? Isn't it doing more harm than good to the faith? · 8 hours ago
Most of these schools long ago divested themselves of any pretense of control whether by the Catholic hierarchy directly (Bishops) or religious orders (the Jesuits in the case of Georgetown and others).
The watershed moment was the infamous Land o Lakes statement of the late 1960's where many of those schools declared "I Just Gotta Be Me" and the Papal Encyclical Ex Corde Ecclesiae which most clergy and schools ignored.
You'll notice that the first signatory on the Land o Lakes statement is the then president of Georgetown University.
Jun '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
It will be interesting to see what kind of reception Congressman Ryan gets at Georgetown this morning. Perhaps his speech will be recorded and later available on YouTube.
One has to wonder at what point whether Ryan or any other conservative politician will at some point challenge the more strident Leftist-faction of the Catholic clergy, those in the academy, and other influential Catholics who purport to cloak themselves in Catholic doctrine - as they see it and speak for the Church.
The Georgetown case is but one example of how Progressivism, I'm sorry, Marxism, has crept into the Church and occasionally bubbled up and popped to the surface as something that is in lock step with Catholic doctrine and the long history of Catholic teaching.
Unfortunately, many Americans who see news items like these flash by, begin to assume that, by golly, the Church at some point must have embraced the notion of collective salvation. Since smack downs from Rome are infrequent one would hope that more conservative American Catholics would at least be more vocal in challenging the presumptive authority of arrogant Marxist Catholics. Would Bill Buckley have let some of this nonsense pass without a broadside?
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
OK - here I am. Watched the Caps Bruins game (great game!) and then went to bed. This morning, I came into work, started my morning programs, sipped my cup of coffee, and clicked on Ricochet.
Oh jeez. Here we go again.
I'll just repeat what I've said before, here and elsewhere. Jesuits are a religious order, filled with a lot of different people, and the spirituality and discipline aren't political. However, a huge number of Jesuits are political liberals, sometimes beyond the point of parody.
Like anyone has to tell me. I was in the order for 8 years. Trust me, I've got more liberal stories than Kellogg's has Corn Flakes.
Some of these flagship Jesuit universities (Georgetown, Fordham, Boston College, Marquette) are worlds of their own. For instance, the philosophy department of Georgetown wouldn't consider a Jesuit for many years. Decades ago, the Jesuit community dictated every aspect of campus life and policy - but that's long gone.
That's why a lot of Jesuits in my generation wanted to get out of those institutions. Instead of Jesuits dragging schools toward the faith, the schools were dragging Jesuits.
Continued ...
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
This usually goes without saying: the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the liberal voice gets the media coverage.
You don’t have to take my word for it, but here’s my word anyway: most of the working Jesuits (and from other orders, to be fair) aren’t political at all. They do their jobs, try to serve God and the people directly in front of them. 95% of the time, politics doesn’t come up. So when I see sweeping statements about liberal Jesuits, I understand why, but there’s so little truth there is in it.
The vast majority of Jesuits are not political, but they get swept into the same generalization. Those are the people I leap to defend. And as you all know, I take pride in defending them. These were my brothers, and I defend my brothers.
But here’s a more general question … is being politically liberal … immoral? Is anyone here willing to say that your politics measures your morality, so that being liberal means being immoral? Many Jesuits are politically liberal. The Order tends to be liberal. Does that make them immoral or religiously disobedient?
May '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
I seem to recall that some years back the Church required Georgetown to cease calling itself a Catholic university.
Jun '10
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
KC Mulville: ...
But here’s a more general question … is being politically liberal … immoral? Is anyone here willing to say that your politics measures your morality, so that being liberal means being immoral? Many Jesuits are politically liberal. The Order tends to be liberal. Does that make them immoral or religiously disobedient? · 0 minutes ago
Just to address your last point - No...not necessarily. It would depend on the issue at hand. How Liberal is Liberal? In the last 60 or so years Liberal hasn't been liberal (lower case "l") at all. If a priest is complicit in aiding and abetting brutal Marxist dictators like the Castro brothers or Hugo Chavez then yes, their actions, their complicit behavior may be indeed be considered immoral and at odds with Catholic teaching, wouldn't you agree?
Jan '11
Re: Paul Ryan Offends Georgetown Professors and Administrators
Before we go much further, I'll just raise my hand to pause here.
What's going on in this story?
Ninety liberals wrote a letter. Big deal.
With all due respect, Brian, you've taken a press release-turned-media report, and you're "asking questions" about what it all might mean. I don't think it means much of anything. Some liberals deny that Ryan's budget exhibits the Catholic principle of subsidiarity. Big deal.
It's one more manufactured press release. It represents a liberal point of view. Who cares?