Party Purity and RINO Purges
Duane Oyen, writing on the Ricochet facebook page, says the RINO hunting has got to stop:
Nonsense like this is what may doom the Right....[W]hen the purges go this far, we are setting up to get a whopping 25% of the vote. No serious discussion of policy or alternatives, let alone the realities of governing; just bumper sticker slogans and invective.
Here's a little taste of the so-called nonsense:
The beltway buzz is all 'atwitter about Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty's possible run for the GOP Presidential nominee-nod in 2012. I believe and know Pawlenty to be in the big-spending GOP camp. He would be a terrible choice. Albeit he would predictably start to strut around his conservative ideals only to govern like another quasi-RINO in sheep's clothing...True-conservatives please stand up. Party activists please stand up. Reaganite conservative limited government believers please stand up. If this guy is the nominee, I am vying for a third party.
The call for party purity is dangerous and self-defeating. Without a broad coalition of support, the Right will be unable to garner the majorities it needs to effect policy change in the legislature. And yet, I all too often hear fellow conservatives express their preference for all or nothing. If we can't have a majority of principled leaders who won't stray from the limited-government, deficit-hawk, tax-cutting rubric of "real" conservatism, best just to let the Democrats have control of the government so that they're to blame when things go wrong. This is all well and good in theory, but it's simply not realistic.
Take for example my blue state of California. The best candidate we can hope to elect to the Senate is Carly Fiorina, and to the governorship, Meg Whitman. I've heard both women decried as RINOs countless times right here on Ricochet. But considering the electorate in this state at this point in history, these two candidates would be immeasurably better than their alternatives.
While I agree that now is the time for conservatives to rally around first principles -- and among those, cutting spending, tackling deficits, curtailing government growth -- we mustn't go so far as to alienate a broad swath of support by demanding ideological purity.
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Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Perhaps I missed something here!
Maybe I'm getting Senile, but my recollection is that Carly Fiorina is receiving the support the Tea Party California's Senate Race.
I haven't seen Mr. Campbell (or Mr. DeVore) running any kind of Write In race or third party bid.
I'm getting just a little tired of this Sit Down and Shut Up mentality pervading from 'The Ruling Class.'
I'm sorry, but Traitors are more self defeating than finding people who are actually going to Represent you.
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Jaydee_007:
I'm sorry, but Traitors are more self defeating than finding people who are actually going to Represent you. · Sep 30 at 10:47am
But who are you labeling as a "Traitor"? Pawlenty? Fiorina?
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Diane -- I agree, BUT. Right now this enthusiasm works for everyone. So the smart move is to let it ride. When it comes time to discuss the presidential race on Nov. 5th, then we can have the conversation in earnest.
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Trace Urdan: Diane -- I agree, BUT. Right now this enthusiasm works for everyone. So the smart move is to let it ride. When it comes time to discuss the presidential race on Nov. 5th, then we can have the conversation in earnest. · Sep 30 at 10:53am
Fair enough. And fwiw, I don't tend to think of myself as a squishy conservative. But I appreciate the sensibilities that self-described squishes like Duane and Rob bring to the table and I'd hate to alienate people like them on a broader scale.
Jul '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
May I suggest that we start by dispensing with the abortion litmus test?
As things stand, a Christine O'Donnell, a Sharron Angle or a Sarah Palin can waltz right in, waving their "pro-life" ticket, while a Rudy Giuliani is sternly barred at the door. Heck, at one time, even Ronald Reagan couldn't have passed the test.
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Again, there's a difference between demanding purity and voting for the more conservative (or more probably conservative) of two Republican candidates.
Diane Ellis, Ed.:
Without a broad coalition of support, the Right will be unable to garner the majorities it needs to effect policy change in the legislature.
Yes, but which policies?
I can't speak for others, but my thinking is that a Republican who would help us on peripheral issues but not help us face the core issues (expansion and centralization of government power, spending and debt) is no help at all this far down the road. Like Steyn and others, I believe America is at a tipping point. We must address the fundamentals now, not a decade or two from now. We cannot trust politicians to do a little now and face our main challenges later. Events, if nothing else, will interfere.
Democrats accelerate our decline into debt and tyranny. RINOs slow our decline but refuse to stop it. If we can only choose between a RINO and a Democrat, then we should support the RINO. But we should be willing to gamble on conservatives, when available, because only therein lies hope for a stronger America.
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
I think the easiest thing to do when discussing party purity is mention the greatest example, Reagan. I think it is sometimes overused, but in this case it might fit. I know, I know, it was a different time, but Reagan was elected Governor of California as a conservative, right?
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
I was somewhat alarmed when Krauthammer was called a RINO. Cause if you exclude him, my feeble math skills can't get us to a majority.
Then again, we're surely tough enough to get over slings and arrows like grown-ups. All pulling on the same rope, all wanting (almost) the same thing, with some actual super-duper Snidely villains on whom to focus our anger.
I like to think that....
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
In fact it's not even "well and good" in theory, unless your loyalties are to the party over the welfare of the nation. Who could wish disaster on their country or state, and on the future their children will inherit, and expect to be trusted with power?
And I find it interesting that the commenter you quote, Diane, mentioned Reagan, a leader who famously preached the need to bring like-minded folks together and build winning majorities. The lesson is especially memorable for me because as a much younger man I supported and volunteered for G.H.W. Bush for the 1980 Republican nomination. Reagan proved he was a builder, not a purger. He didn't get rid of his opponents, he turned them into supporters.
Imagine if he had decided to just let Carter have another term, rather than incorporate the Bush team...
Jul '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Diane Ellis, Ed.
But who are you labeling as a "Traitor"? Pawlenty? Fiorina?
My Current list of Traitors;
Jim Jeffords - Jumps and Gives Democrats a Majority in the Senate!
Arlin Spectre - Jumps and Gives Democrats 60 votes in the Senate!
Both were opposed by the forerunners of the Tea Party who tried to "Purge" them from the Republican Party as RINO's.
Republican Establishment Answer... Sit Down and Shut Up. We have to get elected.
Charlie Crist - Has repudiated every value he was running on when he couldn't pull the wool over enough Tea Partiers eyes.
Lisa Murkowski - Write me in!
And the Republican Establishment Response?
Stripping her (Murkowski) of her Leadership Seat would not be in Good Taste?
Sorry Republican Establishment, Voters don't want politicians with Good taste, they want politicians that taste good! (With no apologies to Charlie Tuna.)
.
Fiornia was vetted in the Primary, and she won. the Tea Party is supporting her!
My point?
Allow us to vette the candidates, like Pawlenty. We tried it your way and we got Jeffords, Chaffee, Spectre et al. and it is leaving a very BAD taste in our mouths.
Sep '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
I gave up using the term RINO when I realized that Republican is a political party and apparently anyone can join regardless of their views. That is how the party works. In some ways this bothers me but I also sympathize, they cant have a litmus test, and NYC is different than Alabama.
So it is up to voters to decide for themselves whether a given candidate is worthy and shares their perspective enough to vote for him/her.
What galls me are the many the GOP insiders who believe they own conservative loyalty ~ that somehow conservatives have to moderate their views in order to conform to the local zeitgeist, or else they are stupid and suicidal. These GOPers refuse, absolutely refuse, to accept the fact that sometimes they nominate and support candidates that go beyond acceptability to conservatives, and they resent having to include that consideration in their political calculations.
This makes me question their abilities and their political goals. Too much emphasis is placed on the results of getting people with an R elected each cycle and not enough on a coherent direction and the long term political damage ideologically disloyal incumbents create sometimes for decades.
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
I would be more likely to engage this issue if I could figure out what in the world "RINO" even means (yes, I know what the acronym stands for). Best I can tell, it's simply become a meaningless pejorative that some people toss out when you have the temerity to disagree with them in the slightest. I have to be honest - anytime "RINO" begins to pop up in one of these threads, I tend to tune out. At that point the conversation has usually devolved into a shouting match and I have better ways to spend my time.
Edited on Sep 30, 2010 at 11:22amMay '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Here's a theory, which I just thought of because my mother (Verity Lunesta Smith) always said I was a genius.
We're coming back awfully quickly. Usually you have to spend at least four years in the wilderness. During which time you get your purging done and get the party in fighting trim, having digested painful lessons. This time, we're doing the purging and the comeback simultaneously, so tempers sometimes flare.
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
I guess if you think that falling 85% of the way into an outhouse is better than the alternative, sure. However, you still stink and you're still covered in you-know-what.
The left sees compromise on their part to be two fold. One, they are happy with incremental-ism. To them that's progress. A hundred feet here and a hundred feet there and sooner or later they have the whole mile. But they never go backward.
We, on the otherhand, are always content to tell ourselves, "It could have been worse." Sorry, but that is not a coherent strategy for getting where you want to go.
By saying, "the Right will be unable to garner the majorities it needs to effect policy change," you have already run up the white flag. If you don't intend to fight to win, dear lady, why are you fighting at all? Wouldn't surrender be much more efficient?
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Kenneth: May I suggest that we start by dispensing with the abortion litmus test?
As things stand, a Christine O'Donnell, a Sharron Angle or a Sarah Palin can waltz right in, waving their "pro-life" ticket, while a Rudy Giuliani is sternly barred at the door. Heck, at one time, even Ronald Reagan couldn't have passed the test. · Sep 30 at 11:04am
If you drop that litmus test, you will be repudiating a substantial section of the Republican base. Without them, the Republicans do not have a prayer -- and may not deserve one.
Sep '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
I know the argument Duane, how come your camp won't ever acknowledge the damage that gets done by opportunistic Republicans so well chronicled by Jaydee_007 above?
This election cycle will be a windfall for the GOP, they may even take both houses thanks to riled up conservatives and disillusioned and disgusted independents. But if the GOP acts like its former incarnations when holding a majority, by 2012 conservatives will split into a third party and disaster will ensue.
So I implore moderates like Duane to step back and try to understand the dynamics behind this realignment rather than wag fingers at people over whom they have no control.
Jul '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
RINO,
The Republican Party has Stated Goals and Values (it's called a Platform.)
There are many opportunities to support that Platform that come up in any congressional session. And there are certain people, in the Republican party, who when faced with siding with the platform, or the Main Stream Media template will choose the MSM Template!
First and Foremost, THAT is a RINO.
Remember, "When History Calls, History Calls"?
There is no evidence that the position of the majority of the Residents of Maine were in support of Health Care Reform as exhibited by Max Baucus' bill. But we still got a prime example of a RINO in that committee meeting.
A Republican playing up to the Main Stream Media.
Dave RINO Reichert votes for Cap and Tax. He was completely flumoxed that people of the 8th Congressional District were upset with him. Maybe he should be listening to them and not The Seattle P.I.
Essentially you'll find that is the primary definition of a RINO.
Incidentally, our choice to Replace RINO Riechert chose to take on the Mother in Left Wingtips instead, so who is the Tea Party supporting?
RINO Reichart.
May '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
*Continued from above
The second fold in the left's view of co-operation isn't to share the credit. When we do these incremental concessions and everything comes up a cropper it gives them cover. Sure, this has been a disaster, but look how many Republicans signed on to this! See, your side is no smarter than ours. And besides, our heart was in the right place. You extremists only opposed the policy out of hate and bigotry, not because you correctly predicted the result.
How many times do we have to do this? Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
Sep '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
About "cutting spending, tackling deficits": I'm an old conservative guy and I like my Medicare. Screw with it and I'll vote agin ya. If your comeback is quotations from Hayek or some such, I'll imagine you're just another elitist. Soooo--, I suppose I'm supporting Diane on the one hand. On the other, it would be nice to understand why the US's health care costs twice as much as any other country's. Hard to believe it's that much better. And health care is just one example of why much of what I read in these spaces seems narrow.
Jul '10
Re: Party Purity and RINO Purges
Paul A. Rahe
If you drop that litmus test, you will be repudiating a substantial section of the Republican base. Without them, the Republicans do not have a prayer -- and may not deserve one. · Sep 30 at 11:32am
Really? Where else do they go?
Why can't a forthright candidate say, "I'm opposed to public funding. I'm opposed to partial-birth abortion. I support parents' rights to know. The kinds of judges I'd nominate or vote for would find Roe v. Wade an affront to the Constitution. And I think abortion should be, as it was before Roe v. Wade, a 10th Amendment issue."
Giuliani could have truthfully said all those things. But the litmus test requires him to wave the bloody shirt of absolutism - in which case he never would have been elected in NYC in the first place.
So instead, we get Christine O'Donnell or Sarah Palin. Purity instead of competence.