Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
A few days ago, I noted a post on Conservatives4Palin likening Palin's rhetorical style to Margaret Thatcher's. I posted a transcript of Palin's infamous Katie Couric interview side-by-side with an entirely typical transcript of an unscripted Thatcher press conference.
A Conservative4Palin--Stacy Drake--wrote to say that she found it unfair to use Palin's Couric interview as the point of contrast. Fair enough, I wrote back: You choose the interview, I'll post it.
Here's her reply.
Let me start off by saying that I am no expert on Margaret Thatcher. Outside of listening to a few of her speeches and understanding her place in the world at that time, I really only know about her from an ideological standpoint. I was a young child when she was Prime Minister ... That said, I would consider myself very knowledgeable about Governor Palin. I have been a supporter since 2007, which was long before she became a household name in the lower 48.
I looked for a long time this morning for a transcript of the interview I wanted to give to you. As is the case with most of her good interviews, there wasn't one. After giving it some thought, I realized that was probably a good thing. I say that because I believe had I sent you something, you would have taken whatever portion fit best into your theory about the governor, and proceeded to write another post mocking her. I'm not going to 'tee you up'' like that. As you did with yesterday's post, you would have taken a short line from Palin, matched it with a brilliant quote from Thatcher, and said 'look... she's no Thatcher.'' You were baiting me, and that's okay so long as I know it.
Now, what I do understand about Thatcher, both she and Palin share the same political ideology. They both come from humble backgrounds, and they both have "steel spines." Which is what I think Whitney was getting at when she wrote her post for C4P. I would never compare Thatcher and Palin on style. Clearly these are two very different women in that regard. When you boil everything down, style doesn't mean anything though, does it? It's a very shallow measuring stick.
My point of contention with you and the reason I tweeted you in the first place, actually had nothing to do with Margaret Thatcher. It had everything to do with the fact that anytime I have read or listened to you discuss Governor Palin, you bring up the Couric interview. That interview was combative and has been proven to be highly edited as well. Not to mention, it most certainly wasn't the Governor's finest moment. She was [expletive deleted] off and she fumbled the ball. Fine.
What I don't understand is how you can be in the punditry business and define somebody by one bad moment. My point was that I do not believe you have seen much from the governor outside of that interview. If you have and just don't like her but only reference one interview for whatever reason, then I'm wrong and will admit to that.
I guess I don't understand how somebody I agree with almost all of the time (you) can have such disdain for somebody else I agree with almost all of the time (Palin). It doesn't make any sense to me. Is it a class issue? Or is it that you think she lacks substance? Trust me, I wouldn't volunteer my time to help someone in the manner I do if they did lack substance. I could write 1,000 pages why I support Governor Palin, but I won't do that to you.
So, if you're interested in seeing/hearing some interviews from Governor Palin that you may not have been exposed to prior, I will list them below. I don't expect you to, but it would expand your knowledge about the governor... You'll probably still hate her at the end of it, but you may not.
Time Interview before McCain selected her
Suggested reading: "Sarah takes on Big Oil"
You will learn more about what kind of leader Governor Palin is by reading that book than anything...
Cordially,
Stacy Drake
I promised Stacy I would post this with no comment at all--not from me, anyway. Of course, you're all welcome to comment.
I offer the following links in case anyone wishes carefully to compare beforehand.
(This speech, by the way, was delivered literally only hours after Thatcher narrowly survived a terrorist attack that blasted apart her hotel, killed five of her friends, and left several more permanently disabled.)
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Comments :
May '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
With much respect, Claire, I'm not sure what the point is. Off the cuff Palin is not Thatcheresque, therefore...what? Off the cuff Reagan was not Churchillian, therefore...what?
Palin was thrust on the scene before her time, no doubt. And perhaps her time will rightfully never come. But she sure seems to be uniquely and gratuitously the target of bludgeoning.
May '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Perhaps the best remark I've heard about Palin is what you said to Peter Robinson in your Uncommon Knowledge interview. I remember it as something along the lines of "Why are we even thinking of somebody as a presidential candidate who might be ready for the job by 2012. Where are the grown-ups?"
Still, while Sarah Palin clearly isn't another Margaret Thatcher, nobody ever will be another Margaret Thatcher just like nobody will ever be another Ronald Reagan.
For better or worse we have to make do with what we have. Palin isn't on my short list of favorite candidates, but we'd be better off with a President Palin than a Presidant Obama part II.
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
I guess the point is that it was Conservatives4Palin who made the comparison, not Claire? Isn't that correct? So Claire was simply taking the challenge posed. She pointed out, with examples, the chasm of difference between the greatest woman politician/leader of our time and Palin.
As for choosing the Couric interview initially, I don't think that's a cheap shot on Claire's side. I was a huge, huge fan of Palin prior to that interview. I was a McCain supporter and was thrilled, THRILLED when he chose Palin. It was at the height of my interest in her, when I was expecting to have my hopes in her confirmed to a (super liberal, non-scholarly) media celebrity, that she dropped the ball horribly. After that, I backed off my support of her. I think that interview, and a few missteps afterward, pushed away a large segment of potential supporters. It became obvious that she was/is not ready. Not by a long shot. (1/2)
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
The point is only that I thought Stacy was correct to say that I'd chosen a particularly unflattering example for comparison. I'd keep Thatcher out of it were Palin and her supporters saying, "She's not remotely like Thatcher, but so what." When we're asked to be enthusiastic about her on the grounds that she's Thatcher's obvious heir, however--and yes, that's precisely what we're being asked to do by many of her enthusiasts--it's time for eyes to start rolling heavenward.
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
What frustrates me about Palin fans/operatives is they seem to be missing the point. Palin's got her own kind of charisma that has galvanized a huge population of people in the US. She's folksy, she's charming, she's "real." She's worked her way into politics for noble reasons. She understands family. But she's not presidential material, at least not any time soon. Why can't we just happily accept her on our side as someone whose support and voice is welcomed? I'm happy to have her on the landscape for conservatives, for sure. But that doesn't translate into me believing she should be leading and problem-solving our country at this time. Why try to make her Thatcher 2? I think Palin supporters should be the FIRST to say that Palin is "no Thatcher" but that she respects Thatcher immensely and will study her carefully and hope, one day, to approach her level of intellect and political skill. Palin has other, very different, gifts. Why must it be a competition? Everyone has strengths and limitations. Be humble and honest about them. That's the best approach here and in life. (2/2)
Aug '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
The point is only that I thought Stacy was correct to say that I'd chosen a particularly unflattering example for comparison.
Good point.
Fair enough.
Palin is her own phenomenon, whatever that phenomenon is.
Oct '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Goodness me! For someone devoted to abject and sometimes hysterical contention and polemics, I must say this exchange is devastating. Every bloody one of you is perfectly stinking correct, and damned articulate and thoughtful about it too! You’re killing me! Let’s hope this doesn’t become a habit.
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
The standard should not be "better than Obama." It should be "better than Thatcher," because objectively, the crisis we face is far more serious. If Britain had slipped into the dingy mists of socialist third-rate nations, it would have been a great shame. But the world would have continued to spin. Not so if this happens to America, which really is the last best hope of mankind. I simply cannot accept that Sarah Palin is the last best hope of the last best hope. The idea is insane.
Sep '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Let’s hope this doesn’t become a habit.
I'll alert Rob Long that the Animal House crew has some serious competition from the sorority house just down the street, and they appear to be neat, tidy and civil and have yet to make a single beer bong joke when discussing political personalities.
Oct '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Claire, you win this one walking away. Now lay off my bloody icon, will you?
Did I mention that I want to be Palin's Willie Whitelaw? Ahh, the joys of unrequited love.
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
By the way, isn't that clip of Thatcher after the Brighton bombing one of the most incredible things you've ever seen? Did you all watch that?
Sep '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
What I find most attractive about Palin is she has a backbone; “takes a licken and keeps on ticken.” -Ditto for Thactcher- She is not by any stretch Thatchereaque. But then someone with a Thatcher persona would not stand a snowballs chance in today’s political environment.
Oct '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
And when you interview me for your book on Palin (“There Were Plenty of Alternatives”) I will not pretend, like those priggish Brits, that only some other guy found her devastatingly attractive. Trust me on this.
May '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
I see, Claire. I guess I assume the overwhelming majority of voters are by now aware of her flaws--in spite of some blind followers--and so it felt like piling on.
My history with Palin is precisely what Ursula outlined in the first half of her post: a week-long exhilaration that proved to be unjustified. She's neither Christ nor Satan, just a good and decent and flawed conservative.
May '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Yes, the Brighton bombing clip was amazing. Somewhere in America there is such a leader.
Keep the faith everyone.
Jul '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Palin may be no Thatcher (who could be?) but given that Obama is President and Biden Vice President, I find all the hand-wringing about Palin's readiness mighty peculiar.
Oct '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
I have a concurring opinion with Claire. I agree that if Sarah Palin can not handle Katie Couric then Vladimir Putin will certainly prove to be a bridge too far. While there is much to admire in Palin, she's clearly not up to the task of leading Western civilization at a time when leadership is critical. At a similar stage in their respective political careers, both Reagan and Thatcher had spent a considerable amount of time wrestling with the issues of the day as well as having well defined and articulable world views.
If you believe that Western civilization is facing an existential crisis, it's irrational to then conclude Sarah Palin is the best person to lead its defense.
Where I disagree is setting the bar for our future leaders above Thatcher's level. That's a certain path to disappointment and it strikes me as unrealistic considering how rare leaders at the level of Thatcher are these days.
We're in this odd Palin moment because of a GOP leadership vacuum. I suspect strong alternatives will rapidly begin to appear after this election cycle when we get a new crop of promising governors and senators.
Edited on Oct 16, 2010 at 7:07amRe: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
It would be peculiar if I'd never once wrung my hands about Obama's unreadiness, but in fact I've been nigh-hysterical.
Oct '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Scott Reusser: Yes, the Brighton bombing clip was amazing. Somewhere in America there is such a leader.
Keep the faith everyone. · Oct 16 at 6:43am
This is the conversation we need to have, in my opinion. The adulation for Sarah Palin comes from the simple fact that she's an actual conservative who was nominated to candidacy for Vice Presidency of the United States of America—by a not-actual-conservative, no less. When you consider the Republican history of candidates, the enthusiasm becomes understandable: after Reagan in 1984, we had Bush Sr. in 1988, Bush Sr. in 1992, Bob Dole in 1996, Bush Jr. in 2000, Bush Jr. in 2004, and John McCain in 2008.
If our next Reagan or Thatcher are out there, how do we get them nominated?
Last thought for now: candidates who are either ignorant of economics or, worse, buy the neo-Keynesian line, should be instantly disqualified. Today I'd gladly vote for a Democrat if they were an Andrew Jackson who destroyed the "National Bank" (Fed).
Edited on Oct 16, 2010 at 7:40amMay '10
Re: Palin Versus Thatcher: A Rhetorical Comparison Minus the Couric Interview
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
I'd keep Thatcher out of it were Palin and her supporters saying, "She's not remotely like Thatcher, but so what." When we're asked to be enthusiastic about her on the grounds that she's Thatcher's obvious heir, however--and yes, that's precisely what we're being asked to do by many of her enthusiasts--it's time for eyes to start rolling heavenward. · Oct 16 at 5:54am
I agree. I don't like being told I should be enthusiastic because someone is the next great so-and-so. Let someone stand or fall on their own merits, a sentiment I'm sure Palin agrees with.