Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
From the remarks last month of Rev. Charles Chaput, Archbishop of Philadelphia, to the "Cardinal O'Connor Conference on Life":
Catholics need to wake up from the illusion that the America we now live in – not the America of our nostalgia or imagination or best ideals, but the real America we live in here and now – is somehow friendly to our faith. What we’re watching emerge in this country is a new kind of paganism, an atheism with air-conditioning and digital TV. And it is neither tolerant nor morally neutral.
As the historian Gertrude Himmelfarb observed more than a decade ago, “What was once stigmatized as deviant behavior is now tolerated and even sanctioned; what was once regarded as abnormal has been normalized.” But even more importantly, she added, “As deviancy is normalized, so what was once normal becomes deviant. The kind of family that has been regarded for centuries as natural and moral – the ‘bourgeois’ family as it is invidiously called – is now seen as pathological...."
The task you need to take home with you today is this. Never give up the struggle that the March for Life embodies. No matter how long it takes; no matter how many times you march – it matters, eternally. Because of you, some young woman will choose life, and that new life will have the love of God forever.....
Changing the course of American culture seems like such a huge task; so far beyond the reach of this gathering today. But St. Paul felt exactly the same way. Redeeming and converting a civilization has already been done once. It can be done again.
- Comment (133)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (13)
Comments:
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Karen
I disagree with the regular engagement of the Body of Christ as a special interest group... [ingratiating] themselves to politicians, lobbyists and power brokers. They make deals. Then they go back to their congregants to tell them how they should feel toward a political issue, insuring votes. And then they get upset when they get burned. The whole thing disgusts me.
Yes, it is disgusting and frustrating.
Agreed.
However, faith and politics will eventually interact. This cannot be helped, and cannot always be ignored.
For example, if some faction within the church claims that only a socialist state is compatible with Gospel, it may be necessary to mix religious and political (even economic!) arguments to persuade fellow Christians why this isn't true.
Wherever Leviathan impinges, the apolitical becomes political. That's one of the evils of Leviathan.
Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Karen,That's entirely inadequate. Please actually answer my questions, but stop making outrageous generalizations that you cannot support.
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Joseph Stanko
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
I admit it does bother me a bit, but thankfully, the world doesn't revolve around what bothers me. That I'm slightly troubled by this is my problem, not everyone else's.
Not in exactly those words. It says "Outside the Church there is no salvation" and then explains:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body...
846 continues:
Personally, I'm not sure where that leaves me, as I'm not sure whether I know enough to tell whether Roman Catholicism was founded as necessary by God through Christ. Of course, my only evidence that I would refuse to become Catholic is that I'm not Catholic already.
So I'm still a bit bothered for now. But being bothered isn't always a bad thing.
And your kind elaboration is very much appreciated.
Jun '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Midget Faded Rattlesnake:
Salvation is reconciliation with the Creator of the Cosmos. How can we be reconciled to the Creator except through his Logos? That is, how can we understand, much less unite with, our Creator, unless we receive His animating principle and allow it to live in us?
To a Christian, this is another way of asking, how can we find God, except through Jesus?
Right, and once we receive his Spirit within us we become part of His Body, the Church. If we are united with Him we must also be united with each other. Conversely, if we are not united with each other we must not be united with Him, and without that union, that reconciliation, how can we be saved? Hence: Outside the Church there is no salvation.
One more quotation from the Catechism:
May '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Lucy Pevensie
Karen
Edited 4 minutes ago
I call myself a Christian, because I don't identify with any denomination - Anglican, Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc. Yes, I am an active member in a church.
My comment at #118 might illuminate. If not, I believe that using the pulpit to dictate political policies/address political issues is unproductive. There are far more pressing matters of this world and the next. I don't believe that any faith/religion/church should be in a politician's back pocket. There is too high a risk for undo influence on both sides. I never denied anyone the right to practice their First Amendment rights, but I think it's unwise to ally a church with a particular political cause.
I believe that any secular centralized gov't is by its nature hostile to Christianity in some form or other. The point I was making is that any religion or faith should keep its distance in the first place, to be "as shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves."
Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
EDIT: Removed
Edited on February 27, 2012 at 5:35amMay '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
However, faith and politicswilleventually interact. This cannot be helped, and cannot always be ignored.
For example, if some faction within the church claims that only a socialist state is compatible with Gospel, it may be necessary to mix religious and political (even economic!) arguments to persuade fellow Christians why this isn't true.
Wherever Leviathan impinges, the apolitical becomes political. That's one of the evils of Leviathan. · 28 minutes ago
I had this very issue with friends back in 2008. Many of them are admirers of Jim Wallis (Sojourners), Brian McLaren, etc. and big proponents of the Social Justice Movement. I spent a good deal of time engaging with my friends, hoping to convince them. What really troubled me was that their most frequent defense was that good Christians should vote the way they do. Jim Wallis believes this. Jerry Falwell believed this. I can't. It's just so corrosive and divisive. I was then reminded of the wisdom of Gamaliel. That is my hope.
Mar '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Christopher Esget: EDIT: Removed · 45 minutes ago
Edited 0 minutes ago
Do not give up Pastor Esget. Even on Ricochet the most contentious issues invite a brusque attitude. Do not lose faith in your ability to persuade hostile opponents.
May '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Christopher Esget: EDIT: Removed, since it's futile. This is the third thread where Karen has slandered Christians with broad strokes, or clergymen en masse. I thought Ricochet was supposed to be different.
Cheers, all. I've enjoyed talking with many of you, but I find this too frustrating, which is my own weakness. · 39 minutes ago
Edited 4 minutes ago
As I said, if you have any problems with something I've written, you can contact me. I came back to this thread at your request. If you have a problem with a comment I've made and thinks it violates the CoC, let the editors know. I would like to know though, what upset you and the other threads that I "slandered Christians with broad strokes, or clergymen en masse." Ricochet is a great site, and I hope you continue to participate.
Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Karen, you've made numerous sweeping generalizations on multiple threads that are simply not true, and that I find personally insulting. Since I have a close relationship with one of the editors here, I have no desire to file a CoC complaint. I removed my comment because I really don't want to inflame the matter and it was unwise and unkind of me, but what I perceive to be your hostility toward religious organizations in general (note katievs has also indicated she finds your remarks bigoted) is making this an unpleasant forum for me, and I should leave before I make things worse.
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Karen
What really troubled me was that their most frequent defense was that goodChristians should vote the way they do. Jim Wallis believes this. Jerry Falwell believed this. I can't. It's just so corrosive and divisive.
I can't, either. A dear friend of mine is an ultra-lefty. (Voted for Nader, Howard Dean, and so on...) But he's also one of the gentlest, sweetest people I know, and in my opinion, a very good Christian -- I'm inspired by his simple faith.
He's just incredibly naïve, politically. (Honestly, it's one of the things I find endearing about him. He's just a flower-child in that sweet and gentle -- rather than angry and self-indulgent -- way.)
I never talk politics with him. There's always so much else to talk about.
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Joseph Stanko
Midget Faded Rattlesnake:
...To a Christian, this is another way of asking, how can we find God, except through Jesus?
Right, and once we receive his Spirit within us we become part of His Body, the Church. If we are united with Him we must also be united with each other. Conversely, if we are not united with each other we must not be united with Him, and without that union, that reconciliation, how can we be saved? Hence: Outside the Church there is no salvation.
One more quotation from the Catechism:
Like may raised protestant, I agree in theory, but still balk at identifying the Church Universal with Roman Catholicism.
Had I been born Roman Catholic, I wouldn't feel the need to leave, but not having been born Roman Catholic, well... I wouldn't want to be a half-hindquartered convert... Could I really agree to everything?
Jun '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Reading through the thread for the first time, I am struck by one over-arching thought... even when discussing, misunderstanding, and/or posturing on core issues, the Ricochetoise manage to do it with courtesy and respect. I realize there are more than a few edits and few posts removed but, far and away, this conversation is what I think Ricochet was hoping for.
I cannot imagine reading through 125+ comments on religion and prejudice on any other site. Thanks, Ricochet!