Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
From the remarks last month of Rev. Charles Chaput, Archbishop of Philadelphia, to the "Cardinal O'Connor Conference on Life":
Catholics need to wake up from the illusion that the America we now live in – not the America of our nostalgia or imagination or best ideals, but the real America we live in here and now – is somehow friendly to our faith. What we’re watching emerge in this country is a new kind of paganism, an atheism with air-conditioning and digital TV. And it is neither tolerant nor morally neutral.
As the historian Gertrude Himmelfarb observed more than a decade ago, “What was once stigmatized as deviant behavior is now tolerated and even sanctioned; what was once regarded as abnormal has been normalized.” But even more importantly, she added, “As deviancy is normalized, so what was once normal becomes deviant. The kind of family that has been regarded for centuries as natural and moral – the ‘bourgeois’ family as it is invidiously called – is now seen as pathological...."
The task you need to take home with you today is this. Never give up the struggle that the March for Life embodies. No matter how long it takes; no matter how many times you march – it matters, eternally. Because of you, some young woman will choose life, and that new life will have the love of God forever.....
Changing the course of American culture seems like such a huge task; so far beyond the reach of this gathering today. But St. Paul felt exactly the same way. Redeeming and converting a civilization has already been done once. It can be done again.
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Feb '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Wow! I have spent 30+ min reading through these comments. At times I have found this discussion to be snarky, and full of resentment, and at other moments it's been full of acceptance and enlightenment. A no time did I mistake that I was among anything other than conservatives of one stripe or another. "Progressives" don't care enough about true principals to engage in discussions like this. Relativism has them convinced that each owns their own truth, so they seek not to explain or carry on intelligent discussions of faith, religion, or morality.
So while we all have differences, we must thank the founders for this First Amendment, that fosters such robust conversation. I would not want to live in a nation without it. Fight on!
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 6:30pmApr '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
JustinC: Wow! I have spent 30+ min reading through these comments. At times I have found this discussion to be snarky, and full of resentment, and at other moments it's been full of acceptance and enlightenment. A no time did I mistake that I was among anything other than conservatives of one stripe or another. "Progressives" don't care enough about true principals to engage in discussions like this. Relativism has them convinced that each owns their own truth, so they seek not to explain or carry on intelligent discussions of faith, religion, or morality.
So while we all have differences, we must thank the founders for this First Amendment, that fosters such robust conversation. I would not want to live in a nation without it. Fight on!
Well put, and ditto.
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
It was Richard Steward at #3: ONLY [my emphasis] the Gospel...
Why does the word only frighten you so much? Why does exclusivity frighten you?
It is a very common thing, to believe that there is only one best way to do this or that. Most of humanity believes that there is only one best way to do something or other. Chefs often think their way is the only way to beat egg whites, for example. Do we fear a tyranny of chefs?
You behave as if any claim to exclusivity must be about coercion, about forcing others to submit to one's will. I say exclusivity is often instead about love (for example, marriage is an exclusive institution), and love by its nature is not coercive.
You say that only is a threat to your people, the Jews. Yet Jews believe there is only one God. Does this mean we should fear Jewish tyranny? I hardly think so.
And how is the Jewish belief in only one God so much less exclusive than the Christian belief that Jesus is the only door to salvation?
Or does the word only frighten you only when Christians use it?
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Moreover, Noesis Noeseos, for someone who professes interest in philosophy, you're playing ignorant as to why Christianity considers Jesus a universal figure.
To Christians, Christ is Logos. And the Logos became flesh and walked among us as a man, Jesus. A philosopher ought to find this a touching story, even if he also finds it absurd.
Salvation is reconciliation with the Creator of the Cosmos. How can we be reconciled to the Creator except through his Logos? That is, how can we understand, much less unite with, our Creator, unless we receive His animating principle and allow it to live in us?
To a Christian, this is another way of asking, how can we find God, except through Jesus?
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 9:18pmMay '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
You say thatonlyis a threat to your people, the Jews. Yet Jews believe there isonlyone God. Does this mean we should fear Jewish tyranny? I hardly think so.You behave as if any claim to exclusivitymustbe about coercion, about forcing others to submit to one's will. I say exclusivity is often instead about love (for example, marriage is an exclusive institution), and love by its nature is not coercive.
And how is the Jewish belief inonlyone God so much less exclusive than the Christian belief that Jesus is theonlydoor to salvation?
Or does the wordonlyfrighten you only when Christians use it?
wow Midge. I mean, I'm totally impressed.
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 8:57pmAug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
One more speculation:
Christianity is perhaps peculiar for asking the question, "Who is truth?" rather than "What is truth?" And who truth is, come to mankind, is Jesus.
The modern, materialist mind thinks of truth as a collection of facts to be asserted, which turns truth into another weapon of domination: whoever asserts the most successfully wins.
But to the Christian mindset, truth is first a who, not a what, a person to be loved, not a thing to be used.
No Christian can claim to have cornered the market on truth, just as no person can rightfully claim to own another person. But a Christian can claim to love, in the imperfect way that all finite, fallible creatures must love, truth in the person of Jesus.
Mar '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
If you have to ask that, there is simply no way I can satisfy you. I still don't know about Richard, but you I can see becoming very cozy with Torquemada.
That's twice you've essentially accused members of being in favor of torture and forced conversion.
I'm not Catholic, and the catechism clearly states that there is no salvation outside the Holy Catholic Church. When they say this, it doesn't bother me. It's not what I believe, and as long as they're not holding a gun to my head, they can say it all day long. I still consider Catholicism a tremendous force for good and an overwhelmingly positive influence on western civilization. So I regnize that despite my differences with them, most of our goals and hopes and dreams for this civilization are the same. I can live with their catechism.
So I say to you, that if an American Jew can't recognize the same points, they're missing the forest for the trees. Outside of Israel, where is a Jew going be have more freedom and respect? Egypt? Saudi? Afghanistan?
I bet most will take Christian countries, thanks.
Sep '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
I'm not Catholic, and the catechism clearly states that there is no salvation outside the Holy Catholic Church.
Careful how you interpret that statement.
Sep '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
There are many Jewish converts to the Catholic faith and I think if they were mistaken about the relationship between the 2 faiths, they would be the ones to question directly about it.
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Douglas
I'm not Catholic, and the catechism clearly states that there isnosalvation outside the Holy Catholic Church. When they say this, it doesn't bother me.
I admit it does bother me a bit, but thankfully, the world doesn't revolve around what bothers me. That I'm slightly troubled by this is my problem, not everyone else's.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So I say to you, that if an American Jew can't recognize the same points, they're missing the forest for the trees. Outside of Israel, where is a Jew going be have more freedom and respect? Egypt? Saudi? Afghanistan?
I bet most will take Christian countries, thanks.
Excellent point.
Moreover, nominally Christian European countries mock America for being "too Christian". Yet where are Jews safer now, Europe or America?
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Pseudodionysius:I'm not Catholic, and the catechism clearly states that there is no salvation outside the Holy Catholic Church.
Careful how you interpret that statement.
Interesting, and comforting. Thanks, Pseud.
Aug '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
katievs
wow Midge. I mean, I'm totally impressed.
They say reptiles can't blush. But I've grown a set of blushing glands just for you.
But seriously, I'm humbled by your impressedness (is that a word?).
Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
I do wish Karen would respond, on this and other threads, after making such severe statements but not engaging with her interlocutors.
Jun '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
In general, praying Catholics are not too scary. I guess it depends on what you find scary. :)
Father,
I abandon myself into your hands;
do with me what you will.
Whatever you may do,
I thank you.
I am ready for all, I accept all.
Let only your will be done in me,
and in all your creatures.
I wish no more than this, O Lord.
Into your hands I commend my soul;
I offer it to you
with all the love of my heart,
for I love you, Lord,
and so need to give myself,
to surrender myself into your hands,
without reserve,
and with boundless confidence,
for you are my Father.
--Bl. Charles de Foucauld
May '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
Do you have any idea of how offensive this claim is to believing Jews?
In 114 messages, no one has addressed the obvious point that everyone must, I'm sure, be aware of. If Noesis has offense, his offense is with a certain Jew who said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by me." Or perhaps another Jew, trained as a Pharisee by one of the greatest of Pharisees, who said, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: 'The righteous will live by faith.'” And, in writing, he knew the Torah better than anyone.
Just a witness.
Nov '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
I am coming to this thread late and briefly, with less time to find sources than I would like. But last night as I was falling asleep, I realized what had disturbed me here, and I am hoping Noesis comes back to see this.
Noesis, I think you are fighting the battles of centuries ago and missing the foe that is threatening you today. The best defenders that believing Jews and the state of Israel have in the modern world are orthodox Christians of various stripes. Christians and Jews are on the same side defending themselves and one another against militant Islamists in many countries around the world, and in this country against secularists who for reasons unclear have allied themselves with militant Islam. Check out Rabbi Daniel Lapin's American Alliance of Christians and Jews for a Jewish perspective on the importance of Christians to Jews in America.
Jews have sometimes mistakenly thought that by forcing Christianity into the shadows and creating a "Naked Public Square," they will make more room for Judaism. Instead, we find ourselves in a world of moral relativism in which anti-Semitism has almost become respectable again.
Nov '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Quoting Rabbi Lapin:
May '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
That is simply not true. I've engaged with you and others several times, but I find mischaracterizations and accusations unproductive in a discussion. Contact me if my replies don't suffice.
Let me attempt to clarify my point one more time. I disagree with the regular engagement of the Body of Christ as a special interest group in Washington, D.C. Priests, pastors, reverends, theologians, etc., ingratiate themselves to politicians, lobbyists and power brokers. They make deals. Then they go back to their congregants to tell them how they should feel toward a political issue, insuring votes. And then they get upset when they get burned. The whole thing disgusts me. Instead, if Christian leaders advised more time spent sharing the Gospel of Christ, striving to follow Him and serving those in need, we'd accomplish so much more. If these leaders have such a lack of faith in their followers to make right decisions that they must press them to favor a political view, than that is a failure of leadership.
Edited on February 27, 2012 at 4:04amNov '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Karen
I resent that accusation. I identify myself as a Christian. I happen to have many friends who are devout Catholics. If you read my first post, I criticize Protestant Evangelicals for the same offense. What I don't like is when an organized religion of any stripe takes sides in a political issue. You are free and encouraged to defend the First Amendment, but as a citizen, not a reverend or however you identify yourself.
Karen, that's an odd formulation: "I identify myself as a Christian." I'm not sure I've ever heard that before. I've heard people say "I identify myself as Jewish," but that usually means that they are ethnically Jewish but not practicing. I assume the phrase implies that you aren't a member of a church or practicing?
At any rate, surely you can see that your formulation doesn't make sense. The whole point of freedom of speech and freedom of religion is that people of faith are free to make any statement they like about anything they like, and are not bound by the constitution to pretend that they are not representatives of a church.
Edited on February 27, 2012 at 4:00amJun '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Douglas
I'm not Catholic, and the catechism clearly states that there isnosalvation outside the Holy Catholic Church. When they say this, it doesn't bother me.
I admit itdoesbother me a bit, but thankfully, the world doesn't revolve around what bothersme. That I'm slightly troubled by this ismy problem,not everyone else's.
Not in exactly those words. It says "Outside the Church there is no salvation" and then explains:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body...
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: