Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
From the remarks last month of Rev. Charles Chaput, Archbishop of Philadelphia, to the "Cardinal O'Connor Conference on Life":
Catholics need to wake up from the illusion that the America we now live in – not the America of our nostalgia or imagination or best ideals, but the real America we live in here and now – is somehow friendly to our faith. What we’re watching emerge in this country is a new kind of paganism, an atheism with air-conditioning and digital TV. And it is neither tolerant nor morally neutral.
As the historian Gertrude Himmelfarb observed more than a decade ago, “What was once stigmatized as deviant behavior is now tolerated and even sanctioned; what was once regarded as abnormal has been normalized.” But even more importantly, she added, “As deviancy is normalized, so what was once normal becomes deviant. The kind of family that has been regarded for centuries as natural and moral – the ‘bourgeois’ family as it is invidiously called – is now seen as pathological...."
The task you need to take home with you today is this. Never give up the struggle that the March for Life embodies. No matter how long it takes; no matter how many times you march – it matters, eternally. Because of you, some young woman will choose life, and that new life will have the love of God forever.....
Changing the course of American culture seems like such a huge task; so far beyond the reach of this gathering today. But St. Paul felt exactly the same way. Redeeming and converting a civilization has already been done once. It can be done again.
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Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
But I don't want to belabor this point. You know the gospels better than I, but there are passages in the King James Version that speak militantly against the Sanhedren, with the implication that it stands for Judaism generally, and declare that a new law has deposed the law of Moses.
Certainly the Sanhedrin doesn't come out looking good in the Gospels. But it should be remembered that the authors (except for Luke) were Jews, and I do not think that Peter or the other Apostles in any way thought of themselves as breaking from Judaism, but as practicing its fulfillment. The idea of the Law of Moses being deposed - no. The law as that which condemns has been fulfilled in Jesus, and the ceremonial law (sacrifices) is abrogated, as it has been fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus.
In short, the Gospels are anti-circa CE 30's-Jewish-leadership, but not anti-Semitic. As Niemoller and Bonhoeffer—at no little cost to themselves—reminded the Nazis, Jesus was a Jew.
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Christopher Esget
I'll use Irenaeus' analogy of the mosaic: some have taken the tiles that make the image of the King, and reassembled them into an image of a fox.
Once the Christian Faith became married to the power of empire, it became compromised, and often barely resembled the faith of the apostles. These things were wrong, horribly so. But I don't think I'm alone in saying orthodox Christians today unequivocally reject them not only as sins but as utterly inconsistent with the words of Scripture. · 7 minutes ago
My friend, I think you, more than some others, will be forced to labor under an especially heavy burden. You have received the gospel and you are ready to obey the command to convey the good news. But you are aware of the contradictions involved.
Perhaps I have been to harsh, but I still adhere to my objection against the claims of exclusivity. When I read your words, however, my heart opens more readily to those who wish actively to lift up those in their care and to encourage them to take an ethically respectable role in this world.
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Christopher Esget
Noesis Noeseos
But I don't want to belabor this point. You know the gospels better than I, but there are passages in the King James Version that speak militantly against the Sanhedren, with the implication that it stands for Judaism generally, and declare that a new law has deposed the law of Moses.
Certainly the Sanhedrin doesn't come out looking good in the Gospels. But it should be remembered that the authors (except for Luke) were Jews, and I do not think that Peter or the other Apostles in any way thought of themselves as breaking from Judaism, but as practicing its fulfillment. The idea of the Law of Moses being deposed - no. The law as that which condemns has been fulfilled in Jesus, and the ceremonial law (sacrifices) is abrogated, as it has been fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus.
In short, the Gospels are anti-circa CE 30's-Jewish-leadership, but not anti-Semitic. As Niemoller and Bonhoeffer—at no little cost to themselves—reminded the Nazis, Jesus was a Jew. · 4 minutes ago
Ok, good point. I yield here.
Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
I rejoice to hear you say the above. At least as I understand Christianity, its heart is in the universal fall of mankind, and confession and absolution. We would of course add that the forgiveness for the human race before God is found in the death of Jesus, and our redemption in His resurrection. All of which should lead us to not only forgive our fellow Christians, but to, "as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men." (Romans 13:18).
Jun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
My friend,
My wife's calling me for dinner, but those two little words give my heart great cheer. I've enjoyed our discussion, and learned from you, my friend.
Jun '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
You know the gospels better than I, but there are passages in the King James Version that speak militantly against the Sanhedren, with the implication that it stands for Judaism generally, and declare that a new law has deposed the law of Moses.
As I mentioned earlier, for me the teaching authority of the Church is a blessing, an aid to proper understanding rather than a hinderance. As you say there has been a history of dispute and misinterpretation of some of these passages. The Second Vatican Council responded with the declaration Nostra Aetate:
Jun '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Christopher Esget
But it should be remembered that the authors (except for Luke) were Jews, and I do not think that Peter or the other Apostles in any way thought of themselves as breaking from Judaism, but as practicing its fulfillment. The idea of the Law of Moses being deposed - no. The law as that which condemns has been fulfilled in Jesus, and the ceremonial law (sacrifices) is abrogated, as it has been fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus.
I agree and would just add that Acts recounts a fierce debate among the Apostles over whether new converts to Christianity must also adopt the Jewish ritual law, in particular over whether male Greek converts must be circumcised. They eventually decided no, Jesus came to save both Jews and Gentiles. But note that both sides agreed, indeed took for granted, that Jews were included; it was only the inclusion of non-Jewish Greeks as well that was contested.
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
@ Joseph Stanko (#66):
I would have to be utterly craven not to recognize an act of contrition. I shall never denigrate a sincere seeking for truth or a desire to achieve moral rectitude, which is a prime moment in the ethical health of the nation. I readily admit that in the history of the world, the Christian religion is that in which the recognition of each individual's essential freedom first became explicit; and that, furthermore, the actions that elevate us finite humans most closely to infinite Spirit are those that take effect when we each confess our transgressions against our fellows and endeavor subsequently to achieve mutual forgiveness.
My quibbles stand hard on the intellectual plane. The Spirit, however, moves freely and fluently above.
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 1:27amDec '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
I do not have confidence that my good Bishops in the Church will keep up the drum beat against HHS. Me thinks that soon, very soon, they will retreat back to their comfortable cocoons.
Jan '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Joseph Stanko
I'm still struggling then to understand what you found offensive about "And only the Gospel can change our culture, when individual people are changed by Jesus himself." It seems to me to merely reflect the Christian belief that Jesus commanded us to "preach the gospel to the whole creation."
While I don't find this offensive, I find it frustrating, especially in a secular context such as this discussion, as it immediately devalues any position that does not accept its faith propositions.
That said, Noesis Noeseos's references to Torquemada were uncalled for.
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 2:12amJan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
etoiledunord: Noesis Noeseos,
I'll give you one more opportunity to be offended, but no offense intended. :)
Sr. Rosalind Moss (54 min.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0iSP5p1_M · 4 hours ago
Sorry to catch up late, but even if you can put Yehudi into the Church, you can in no way at all cannot thereby extirpate Yehudi. Sure, hers is a great story, a living myth; but it's all subjective, it's all feeling.
There is no end to the contingencies of subjective feeling. The nun is an individual; she has her own internal, dreamy visions and struggles, exalting sexual purity. The Jews are a nation, given under the light of day to the land to abide as a community for generation after another. Their messiah is redeemer of the nation, not the founder of a church of the gentiles.
The church is not a bad thing, for it does speak to the nations. But it's not Yehudi, sorry; it's not the nation of Israel which is under threat from fanatics today.
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Tom Meyer
That said, Noesis Noeseos's references to Torquemada were uncalled for. · 48 minutes ago
Edited 46 minutes ago
Oh, thank you, Mr. Meyer. Nothing except you call for it can be called for. Your authority dazzles the mind; it reaches dogmatic proportions. I only hope your ancestors were never stretched upon the rack.
[Comment redacted]
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 6:44amMar '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Christopher Esget
I suspect that he means not to equate them but to make a connection between them and their hostility to Christianity. · 5 hours ago
Thanks Christopher - you may well be right, but then look again at the title of this thread - the aetheism has disappeared!
The hostility of Pagans to Christianity goes back to the founding of Christianity, building Churches on Pagan sites, Witch-burning and such like, whereas the hostility of aetheists is much more recent, and is primarily leftist/Marxist in orgin. So I think it's unfair to lump them together.
Sorry to be so pedantic!
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 3:25amMar '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
Do you have any idea of how offensive this claim is to believing Jews?
I'd like to hear your response, fellow, lest I come to believe that Torquemada is your best friend. · 8 hours ago
Edited 8 hours ago
Why are you filled with so much anger and suspicion? No one on Ricochet in the past or in this post of 73+ commentaries has expressed anything such as the opinions you seem to wish to ascribe to them.
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Roberto
Noesis Noeseos
Do you have any idea of how offensive this claim is to believing Jews?
I'd like to hear your response, fellow, lest I come to believe that Torquemada is your best friend. · 8 hours ago
Edited 8 hours ago
Why are you filled with so much anger and suspicion? No one on Ricochet in the past or in this post of 73+ commentaries has expressed anything such as the opinions you seem to wish to ascribe to them. · 1 minute ago
Fair question. I'll only reply, 6,000,000 dead; dogmatic promulgations couched in the holiest of language spanning over the extent of almost 2000 years.
Assertions here on this thread of possessing a monopoly on truth.
Next question.
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 3:39amJun '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
David Williamson
The hostility of Pagans to Christianity goes back to the founding of Christianity, building Churches on Pagan sites, Witch-burning and such like, whereas the hostility of aetheists is much more recent, and is primarily leftist/Marxist in orgin. So I think it's unfair to lump them together.
Sorry to be so pedantic!
No worries - I'm usually the one accused of being pedantic! It's possible I (and perhaps Chaput) mean something broader by "pagan" than what you are thinking of; i.e., to include the pantheon of the Roman Empire and the great era of Christian persecution before the edict of toleration. Sometimes Christians use "pagan" not in the narrow sense (as I think you are using it) but to refer to many non-Christian ideologies en masse.
If that's how he's using it (it's how I automatically read it), then it makes sense. But it's a poor choice of words then, since it is so easily understood differently.
Edited on February 26, 2012 at 3:43amMar '11
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Noesis Noeseos
Roberto
Noesis Noeseos
Do you have any idea of how offensive this claim is to believing Jews?
I'd like to hear your response, fellow, lest I come to believe that Torquemada is your best friend. · 8 hours ago
Edited 8 hours ago
Why are you filled with so much anger and suspicion? No one on Ricochet in the past or in this post of 73+ commentaries has expressed anything such as the opinions you seem to wish to ascribe to them. · 1 minute ago
Fair question. I'll only reply, 6,000,000 dead; dogmatic promulgations couched in the holiest of language spanning over the extent of almost 2000 years.
Assertions here on this thread of possessing a monopoly on truth.
Next question. · 6 minutes ago
Edited 5 minutes ago
Who are you.
May '10
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
katievs
· 3 hours ago
Prominent members of the clergy supported FDR's New Deal and LBJ's Great Society, for instance. They took what was a mandate for Christians and distorted it into a mandate for a secular federal government. I don't see why some Catholics are so shocked the gov't is intruding on their freedom of religion concerning the HHS mandate when their alliance with Progressive Liberals in the past has set the precedent that the church can be bought off. Catholics hold powerful positions in every branch of the federal gov't. That's hardly a society unfriendly to their faith. It strikes me that Catholics of all stripes should have a meeting of the minds before accusing non-Catholics of being unfair to conservatives adherents like Santorum. Santorum's zeal troubles me, because I fear he seeks an abandonment of the Catholic alliance with Democrats for a Republican one. That doesn't square with me. It's unfortunate that Catholics have been betrayed, but they shouldn't have gotten in bed with politicians in the first place. The Catholic church has some serious housekeeping to do, and I wish them well.
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
(continued from 74) People of good will like Pastor Esget mollify my outrage; he takes his Chistianity seriously enough to work through its failings. But then comes an oh-self-certain dandy like Tom Meyer. Oy gevalt!
Jan '12
Re: Paganism with Air-Conditioning and Digital TV
Roberto
Who are you. · 4 minutes ago
Deine Auseinadersetzung.