On the Referendum
Claire Berlinski ·
Sep 12, 2010 at 12:37pm
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Comments :
Jun '10
Re: On the Referendum
Ummm, do you mean punishing the judiciary for criticizing the executive? If this is how they/he treats a 13 year-old, what will happen to the judges?
Edited on Sep 12, 2010 at 1:18pmMay '10
Re: On the Referendum
Wow. So the prime minister grabs a 13-yr old boy by the neck, bruising him, because the child insulted him, and it's the boy who is prosecuted. Turkey's got a long way to go.
And was this incident a political disaster for Erdogan, or just another yawn-nothing-to-see-here story?
Re: On the Referendum
Note where it was reported? Not CNN, precisely.
Re: On the Referendum
It was a yawn. But it's in fact an important story, one of many that never makes it into the Western media. It suggests why we might not feel entirely comfortable with the narrative that today's referendum was a triumph for Turkish democracy. But, you know, we'll see. Let's hope it was.
Sep '10
Re: On the Referendum
Good luck with that, Claire. And I mean that sincerely. However, I remain the Voice of Extreme Pessimism on Ricochet regarding all matters related to Islam.
Jul '10
Re: On the Referendum
So, based upon the prosecution of the 13-year-old kid, do we presume that something along the lines of the 1st Amendment didn't make its way into this new, improved Constitution?
Re: On the Referendum
Oh, something like that was in the old constitution. But, you know--either these notions grow organically or they're not worth much, I guess.
Aug '10
Re: On the Referendum
Claire, Claire, Claire. May I offer you some advice? OK, but I'm going to do it anyway. Claire: nobody cares about the Middle East. It's boring, Claire. It evacuates large ungulate..wait, I don't want the Ricochet editors censoring this entry before I even finish it. Anyway, Claire, I know you invested a lot in studying Turkish, the world's most fascinating tongue. The African language Xironga we chuckle at; the computer language Haskell we sneer at. Ha, ha, and double-ha! But it just doesn't matter. Claire, the State Department's got a whole d---d Middle Eastern Peace Moonshine Wing, full of lifers who've drunk the stuff and shrunk their livers and souls to a wad of scar tissue. Nothing vivifying is ever going to come out of the Middle East.
Claire, this is where you gotta go next: Colombia. Yes! Compared to the Middle East, this place has been deadlier longer, has multiple insurgent forces stably treating its nominal capital as equals, yet still finds the time to grow things Americans buy. That's INTERESTING, Claire. The Middle East ISN'T, Claire!
Jul '10
Re: On the Referendum
John H.: Claire: nobody cares about the Middle East. It's boring, Claire. It evacuates large ungulate..wait, I don't want the Ricochet editors censoring this entry before I even finish it. Anyway, Claire, I know you invested a lot in studying Turkish, the world's most fascinating tongue. The African language Xironga we chuckle at; the computer language Haskell we sneer at. Ha, ha, and double-ha! But it just doesn't matter. Claire, the State Department's got a whole d---d Middle Eastern Peace Moonshine Wing, full of lifers who've drunk the stuff and shrunk their livers and souls to a wad of scar tissue. Nothing vivifying is ever going to come out of the Middle East.
Claire, this is where you gotta go next: Colombia. Yes! Compared to the Middle East, this place has been deadlier longer, has multiple insurgent forces stably treating its nominal capital as equals, yet still finds the time to grow things Americans buy. That's INTERESTING, Claire. The Middle East ISN'T, Claire! · Sep 12 at 6:42pm
It is generally a prudent idea not to imbibe copious amounts of alcohol when posting.
Aug '10
Re: On the Referendum
Dear Claire,
Unclench.
Turkey only has to suffer the future.
Flashes of the past itch.
Better NATO than Iran. We can still sell them pretty cool stuff, so can Israel.
What about the shopping mall theory of geopolitick, buying things is all that matters ?
Re: On the Referendum
Colombia!!! What a coinky-dink, I was just suggesting that to my dear girlfriend, AnaKaterina! She proposed a Greek island, instead. She pretty much has me convinced!
Jul '10
Re: On the Referendum
Claire, some of us here know very little about the Turkish referendum. Could you please explain a few things?
Jul '10
Re: On the Referendum
This is something that may not be reported in the Western media. You might know about it only if you watched the award ceremony following the World Basketball Championship final game. When President Gul and PM Erdogan stepped on the court, they were booed by the spectators until the two left the scene. This is probably something unheard of for politicians who have just won a decisive victory. This shows how divided the Turkish people are becoming or have already become.
Re: On the Referendum
Kenneth:
Good questions, Kenneth. I'm meeting today and tomorrow with a series of Turkish-policy specialists, then hopping back on a plane to Istanbul. I'll have a little look-see when I get back. I'll report after giving these questions--all of them, including especially your last--some thought. I suspect it's a big deal, but not the big deal; it doesn't necessarily mean things are hopeless, but it's certainly left me less hopeful.
Re: On the Referendum
To say the least, Okan. You're not quite grasping what I'm telling you about the Western media. The referendum itself was barely noted. Ricochet members, back me up here and help explain this to Okan: The West does not care what happens in Turkey. It isn't following it; it does not understand it; and it basically thinks, "Well, losing Turkey would be a shame, but what can you expect, they're Moslems. Let's move that air base to Romania!"
Re: On the Referendum
And Okan: This is a failure of imagination on the West's part, but it is far more a failure of competence on the part of the Turkish opposition. When I get back, I'll tell you stories that will make your hair stand on end of how incompetent they've been in their public diplomacy. That has to change or you and your country are doomed. Sorry to be so blunt, but you know, this is no time to sugar-coat things.
Re: On the Referendum
flownover: Dear Claire,
Unclench.
Turkey only has to suffer the future.
Flashes of the past itch.
Better NATO than Iran. We can still sell them pretty cool stuff, so can Israel.
What about the shopping mall theory of geopolitick, buying things is all that matters ? · Sep 12 at 7:31pm
I've long, long since gotten past the idea that the Turks don't want to self-destruct and therefore won't. Study the issue of Istanbul's seismic-preparedness and you'll see why.
Aug '10
Re: On the Referendum
Doubtful they see much future in Persia or yearn for a return to Constantinople.
The Poseidon and Ciragan shuttered ? Where do the billionaires go ?
Do they create ambition or resentment ? Who will treat the women of Turkey the best ?
It'll be there for another thousand years, regardless of it's landlords.
2:22 AM ? Yikes !
Jul '10
Re: On the Referendum
Claire Berlinski
To say the least, Okan. You're not quite grasping what I'm telling you about the Western media. The referendum itself was barely noted. Ricochet members, back me up here and help explain this to Okan: The West does not care what happens in Turkey. It isn't following it; it does not understand it; and it basically thinks, "Well, losing Turkey would be a shame, but what can you expect, they're Moslems. Let's move that air base to Romania!" · Sep 13 at 2:16am
Heck, Americans don't care about Belgium or Holland, either - it's not just Turkey. I would reckon a constitutional referendum in Norway wouldn't have attracted any interest, either.
We're an insular people. I've always called it the "No Americans killed in Indian bus crash" phenomenon. If it's not happening to us, it doesn't matter.
Now, if Lady GaGa were to launch a Turkish tour...or Justin Bieber...