NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
David Frum is a great writer and thinker. Not that I like all of his work. He's the guy who literally wrote out of the right anyone who did not support the War in Iraq. His memorable National Review cover story on the matter was titled "Unpatriotic Conservatives." So he's not the first name that comes to mind for writing about intolerance on the right.
That was before AEI decided they could get more bang for its six-figure bucks elsewhere. Still, if he was let go for his views, you think he might be more sympathetic to Juan Williams, recently fired by NPR for speaking to conservatives on Fox News.
Instead, he uses the firing as a hook to talk about how conservatives are intolerant. For his argument, he uses the case of Brink Lindsey. Lindsey was a pro-war libertarian before he became an anti-war libertarian at CATO. At some point, Lindsey became somewhat obsessed with his dislike of conservative aesthetics. This motivated him to attempt to form a liberal/libertarian alliance. It went over about as well as you might imagine, which is to say not at all. While many libertarians join liberals in their visceral dislike of conservatives, the number of liberals sympathetic to small government in any meaningful way is almost nonexistent.
Now, I know that Frum's conservatism is of the big government variety. But even he has to realize the fundamental difference between private organizations making decisions about which scholars are worth spending scare donor resources on -- and a taxpayer-funded radio company firing an analyst for daring to speak to conservatives. Or do you think he's right -- that the NPR firing of Juan Williams reveals how intolerant conservatives are of views with which they disagree?
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Sep '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Well, I guess Frum's gambit is just a variation of the left's gambit that no matter what we're discussing it somehow always, everywhere, GWB's fault.
Jun '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
The most gracious thing you can say about the Frum column is that it is perhaps an illustration of how partisans on both sides tend to be "close-minded." Of course, that assumes a negative connotation to the term (I'm not certain its always "bad" to be close-minded on certain subjects, especially when it comes to standing on principle).
However, Frum comes across more like one with an axe to grind. Perhaps it is my own close-mindedness, but it sounds more like a schoolyard shoutfest "You're a pooty-head!" "Oh yeah, well you're a bigger pootyhead!" Whatever.
May '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
David Frum has, um, an excellent booklist.
But he started this campaign when Republicans started losing. His argument, which seemed reasonable at the time (and certainly dear to his heart) was that the GOP needed to be more moderate and accomodating.
It sort of sucks when the ground suddenly shifts under your lovingly-constructed theory. But cheer up, Dave. Other pundits don't have to be consistent,so why should you? Join us; feel the power of the Dark Side...
Jul '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Molly, I don't know any libertarians who join liberals in their visceral dislike of conservatives.
I do know libertarans (myself included) who don't sign on with statist conservative approaches to social issues, but otherwise, we consider conservatives to be kindred spirits.
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Jim Chase:
However, Frum comes across more like one with an axe to grind. Perhaps it is my own close-mindedness, but it sounds more like a schoolyard shoutfest "You're a pooty-head!" "Oh yeah, well you're a bigger pootyhead!" Whatever. · Oct 25 at 12:10pm
Well, in full disclosure, I was one of those NR readers who opposed the war. It's hard to forget someone calling you a horrible person because of that. And it does make me wonder how someone who wrote Bob Novak out of conservatism could then turn around and say CATO shouldn't have let go someone who had let go of their own libertarianism. At least some consistency -- or perhaps an overdue apology -- is probably in order.
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
I do. I am libertarian and have heard more than a few of my fellow libertarians seethe with animosity and disgust toward, say, people with traditional values or a belief in God, etc.
Of course, I know many other libertarians who dislike or disagree with social conservatism but aren't disgusted by it.
Jul '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Mollie Hemingway
I do. I am libertarian and have heard more than a few of my fellow libertarians seethe with animosity and disgust toward, say, people with traditional values or a belief in God, etc.
Of course, I know many other libertarians who dislike or disagree with social conservatism but aren't disgusted by it. · Oct 25 at 12:25pm
Well, I sometimes resent social conservatives' outsized influence in the conservative movement, but I admire - and largely share - their values. I just get tired of losing elections because some of their rhetoric alienates independents.
May '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
I dunno, Mollie. We saw some of that urge to purge during the hot war of the Delaware primary. My manservant was obliged to bring smelling salts, it was so unaccustomed in its brutality. Unforgivable Curses scorched the air.
However, it should be noted that this was unaccustomed. Seems to be par for the course among the Left, who have a more invariable set of tenets.
Jun '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Mollie Hemingway
Well, in full disclosure, I was one of those NR readers who opposed the war. It's hard to forget someone calling you a horrible person because of that. And it does make me wonder how someone who wrote Bob Novak out of conservatism could then turn around and say CATO shouldn't have let go someone who had let go of their own libertarianism. At least some consistency -- or perhaps an overdue apology -- is probably in order. · Oct 25 at 12:21pm
Oh, absolutely. I apologize if it seemed I implicated you Mollie, in my schoolyard comment. That was so not my intent. My comment was all about Frum and his response to the Juan Williams episode. What I saw in Frum's article was him engaging in a fit of tu quoque. I tend to get frustrated with those types of arguments, and don't often see the value of them. That doesn't mean we shouldn't point out hypocrisy, of course. But Frum's article (it seems to me) is clearly taking it down the path of who's more close-minded, left or right. Hence the schoolyard comment.
May '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
David Frum is obsessed with the failure of his 2008 book to be accepted by the Right- as with Rod Dreher's "crunchy con", he was roundly booed on the NRO blog. He is resentful over being dumped by AEI, but Charles Murray pointed out at the time, Frum didn't produce much. If conservative purges are ideological I don't understand how they can keep Ornstein around.
He misses the fact that AEI, CATO, NCPA, etc. are all private etities not on the government dole. That does not apply to NPR- no one is saying that NPR should be shut down or censored, just that its government funds should be cut off, as they should have been decades ago.
But he is right about policy talk on the right. You can't build an intellectual movement on being opposed to everything except tax reductions. We only talk minority inclusion at election time, we only talked health care in defense rather than addressing the real policy issues and working diligently to sell free market solutions.
Look at the Rob-David VAT discussion in the last podcast. Even Ricochet is all "no no" and politics more than serious policy substance.
Jun '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Frum is an interesting case. He staked out his claim that there was something wrong with main-stream conservatism (though nothing wrong with the Iraq War). Too small-townish, perhaps. Now he's stuck with a false central premise (not to say that conservatives could not be better, more consistent, more principled conservatives), and he's sticking to it no matter how absurd the consequences: thus, per Frum, the message of the Juan Williams affair is that conservatives are intolerant. Now that's a quantum leap.
"O what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."
Jul '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Duane Oyen: But he is right about policy talk on the right. You can't build an intellectual movement on being opposed to everything except tax reductions. We only talk minority inclusion at election time, we only talked health care in defense rather than addressing the real policy issues and working diligently to sell free market solutions.
Look at the Rob-David VAT discussion in the last podcast. Even Ricochet is all "no no" and politics more than serious policy substance. · Oct 25 at 1:22pm
Yeah, Duane, but those of us who still stand athwart history yelling "Stop" are just too benighted to understand such subtle nuances.
Jul '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
By the way, who says we want to build an intellectual movement?
Burke, Adam Smith, Tom Paine and the Founding Fathers built it long ago. All we're trying to do is conserve it.
Oct '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
I agree. There is nothing wrong with saying "No" when government incessantly expands.
May '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Kenneth
By the way, who says we want to build an intellectual movement?
Burke, Adam Smith, Tom Paine and the Founding Fathers built it long ago. All we're trying to do is conserve it. · Oct 25 at 2:15pm
Like it or not (yes, I wish it were different as well), the public has expectations regarding policy and governance, and that has been the case for 200 years. I have not seen any libertarian movement sell more than 10% of the public on "do nothing or back up"; sad, because often that is the best approach. Rand Paul is not a purist in his race- in fact, he has to convince voters in Ky that in the past he didn't really quite mean everything he said.
Michael Medved has a point.
Oct '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Doing nothing and saying no are two very different things. Trying to downsize government is hardly doing nothing, and could well fit the citizens' "expectations" of "governance".
Aug '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Citizens have had an opinion that "Good Government = Getting Free Stuff" since the Roman Civil War. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now. Such governance leads to the decline of a given polity. Standing up and saying "No" to any number of government programs, health care included, is advocating responsible governance. Advocating changes in health care so that people can have "free stuff" is politicide.
I am tired of voters judging the quality of their representatives by how much largess the representative brings to the district. All this does is set parochial interests against the good of the regime and creates disparity.
We need to stop thinking of Mr. Smith as a "noble figure," when he is just advocating one kind of pork in place of another. Give his state its boy's camp instead of promoting a corrupt public works project?! How is that not advocating pork? His only virtue was that he merely sought a loan and not a pure outlay of tax revenue from other states.
Aug '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
To the Frum, Juan Williams' termination = conservatives being close minded argument...
I predict that Christine O'Donnell will become the Tea Party equivalent of David Frum after the election. She will blame her loss on "vested interests" in the conservative movement, and will get a nice lucrative book deal and do tours on The View and Bill Maher. Her return to the fold with Maher will be teary eyed as she weeps at the cruelty of conservatives into Maher's eager arms. "There, there, Christine...I warned you about those conservatives, but I have always been here for you, feel free to come on my show any time and talk about how conservatives -- like the ISI -- manipulated and ostracized you over the years."
May '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Xty: Doing nothing and saying no are two very different things. Trying to downsize government is hardly doing nothing, and could well fit the citizens' "expectations" of "governance". · Oct 25 at 2:36pm
Let me know when that one works for more than one election cycle. "No no" to everything has the same shelf life as a long war against global terrorists (which lost its "electoral appeal" five years after the murder of >3,000 on US soil).
Sep '10
Re: NPR Firing Shows Conservative Close-Mindedness?
Duane Oyen
Rand Paul is not a purist in his race- in fact, he has to convince voters in Ky that in the past he didn't really quite mean everything he said.
Michael Medved has a point. · Oct 25 at 2:30pm
It is a fact that both Ron and Rand Paul are libertarians who pose as Republicans and soften their formerly rather hard-line libertarian views to get elected.
My question is this--how the heck does Ron Paul keep getting re-elected? It seems that roughly half of the US population has a vested interest in continuing to elect largess-ladling candidates. Is his district super-conservative, or has he resorted to some ladling of his own that I don't know about?
To try to stay partially on topic, I would not favor close-mindedly throwing either of them out of the Republican party just because they are libertarians ...