My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Instead of watching the debate tonight, I had dinner with friends in Littleton. The restaurant had approximately 34 televisions going and all were tuned into the Denver Broncos preseason game. I love Colorado.
So I missed the little brouhaha over Byron York's question to Michele Bachmann, embedded above. When I think of the top, say, 1,000 questions I'd like to hear Fox News ask GOP presidential contenders, asking Michele Bachmann about her views on submissive wives wouldn't rank on my list. And you could tell the audience thought it an unconscionably rude or idiotic question.
What I find surprising, though, is how little the culture understands about what the New Testament teaches Christians about marriage. So as a wife in a Christian marriage, allow me to explain. Marriage is my most important vocation. It is the means by which God blesses me and my husband. Ephesians tells us that marriage is an image of Christ and the church.
St. Paul tells spouses to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives are told to submit to their husbands as to the Lord. Husbands are told to lay down their lives for their wives, sacrificing everything for them out of love.
We serve God by serving our spouses and denying ourselves for their good. As Gene Veith has written:
The husband loves and serves his wife, and the wife loves and serves her husband. The unpopular command for the wife to “submit” and the forgotten command for the husband to “give himself up” for his wife are examples of the self-denial required in every vocation. The husband, emulating Christ, sacrifices himself for his wife, who, emulating the church, receives that sacrifice in submission to him.
Today’s culture gets marriage wrong, in large part, because of our obsession with the self. People assume that marriage is supposed to be about self-fulfillment. Christianity, in contrast, teaches self-denial. The irony is that in a Christian view of marriage, both spouses are fulfilled, not by each of them making selfcentered demands, but through the selfless actions of the other.
I fail at this daily but this is what I aim for in my relationship with my husband. Likewise, he aims for this with me. When we sin, which happens all too often, we confess our sins and receive absolution. This is what our daily life is like and I'm thankful to have this teaching about marriage.
The fact is that the husband's given role -- that of complete sacrifice for his wife -- is much more difficult than the wife's role of submission. But something tells me we won't be seeing anybody ask the Catholic or Evangelical male candidates whether they can be president while holding a Biblical view of marriage that requires this complete sacrifice for their spouse. On the one hand, that's a good thing. On the other, it shows just how much that vital role -- the one that sustains a Christian marriage -- has been neglected and forgotten.
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Jun '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
I thought the question was both fair and substantive. There was no way she was prepared for the question from Byron, and we all got a glimpse into her thought processes and temperament. She was graceful and thoughtful - good question and good answer and real insight into a candidate. How rare is this?
Feb '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Crow's Nest: Katievs: I'm a bit surprised to read that you think Byron did well in asking that question.
.....
How is this relevant?
It's relevant because in the context in which Bachmann referred to submissiveness, it wasn't a case of Michele consulting with her husband about a move she wanted to make and then him supporting her, it was a case where her husband suggested that she move in a direction in which she didn't want to go and she agreed, citing submissiveness as motivation. If submissiveness is enough for her to become a tax attorney when she doesn't really have an interest, then it seems like a fair question to probe exactly how far her conception of submissiveness would go.
I think she answered well. It shows that she's a solid, normal human being in a strong marriage. It also shows grace under the pressure of an unexpected and tough question. Good for her. I also think the issue is now a bit diffused, since it would have come up eventually.
Edited on Aug 12, 2011 at 6:28amJun '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
In some situations, President Obama (or any President) "submits" to his Secret Service team. It's because they have distinct roles in the "relationship," and different insights into what constitutes danger. Nothing wrong with that.
Jun '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
This is more superficial presentation of Christian doctrine. I'm sorry Byron York was the one to play into it. Bachmann did as well as she could in the limited format to explain it in a nutshell.
Submission by the wife only works as intended when the husband loves the wife as Christ loved the church. It appears that Mr. Bachmann loves his wife in that way, and so her submission -- or respect for his guidance -- works.
Sep '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
York's wife insisted he ask this question, and being the submissive one, he did.
Oct '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
I liked the question. Get it out there, out in the open. Give her the opportunity to respond, and let us see how she can handle these kinds of questions. And she handled it quite well.
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
For what it's worth, I think Byron York is a great journalist and he did have the right to ask the question, on account of Bachmann's previous statements about going to law school because her husband told her to. I wouldn't have asked the question for a few reasons, but I'm not offended by the question. What I find fascinating, however, is how much the culture is unaware of what Christian marriage and submission is and is like.
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Good onya, Mollie. As the official Most Happily Married Man on Earth, I can testify that the Biblical model not only works like magic but it actually provides a model for a balance of power. It's two different kinds of power, but still. It definitely beats feminist "equality" which seems always to leave the man a shriveled, secretly angry version of himself, harried by a continually disgruntled woman.
Mar '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
"It's relevant because in the context in which Bachmann referred to submissiveness, it wasn't a case of Michele consulting with her husband about a move she wanted to make and then him supporting her, it was a case where her husband suggested that she move in a direction in which she didn't want to go and she agreed, citing submissiveness as motivation."
Right, Ed, I understand that she didn't want to become a tax attorney and yet she did out of submissiveness, however defined.
What I am trying to understand is: why is this applicable to the Presidency?
Are we afraid if she's "submissive" she's going turn over Nuclear codes to her husband? That he's going to really exercise the power of the office? That she'll put his opinion before the good of the American people? That she won't be able to do something on policy grounds if he disagrees with her?
What is the politically relevant question to which the answer "submissiveness" makes us uneasy about?
Mar '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
As to Byron himself, I don't think he is a sexist, and I do think he is a fine journalist.
As a thought experiment, let's say the question is legitimate (and by the way, if the "submissiveness" in marriage criterion was high on your list of reasons not to support Michele Bachmann, apparently you've missed all the other criticisms of her). The next question becomes: when this is replayed again and again as a soundbite, who benefits?
Well, Bachmann gains a bit for sure because she handled the question well.
But I think the overall impression left in the mind of the person listening is: Conservatives view marriage as a dominance/submission relationship.
Mollie has aptly pointed out that this is not the way that Christians conceptualize the relationship and that, instead, it is a balance of the virtues of each partner.
That idea, I would suggest, does not come through in Byron's question.
So, since Mollie has demonstrated how simple it is to offer a defense of the Christian conception, I would say that if the question is relevant, it should have been broached in a context where more extended discussion was allowed.
May '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Crow's Nest:
I think the overall impression left in the mind of the person listening is: Conservatives view marriage as a dominance/submission relationship.
As a matter of fact, this is how many liberals think Christians do view marriage.
If we want to dispel the impression, we shouldn't shrink from taking it on directly. And if we want to do that effectively, we should realize that such fears are not entirely groundless.
1) There is Ephesians 5.
2) There are many Christians who really do interpret it that way. I know because I've lived among them.
These Christians hold that Ephesians 5 assigns roles to the husband and wife, and that it is the wife's "duty in the Lord" to submit to her husband's leadership in all things, including such things as budget, clothing, home decorating, reading--everything. I have known many women who, IMO, would definitely not be able to serve as President because their (skewed) understanding of wifely submission.
The good news is that this is a fringe view. It is not the norm among Christians.
I think Michele Bachmann handled the question well, and diffused it effectively, as Ed G. said above.
Edited on Aug 12, 2011 at 9:52amMay '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Yes!
But I am not sure you can be the Most Happily Married Man on Earth. I might argue for a seat at that table.
My stay at home wife, from time to time, will say "Thank you for going to work to support our family."
My wife let's me hang out with my buddies. I don't get permission to do anything, nor does she. We respect each others' time and plan accordingly.
I don't deserve her. Of course, as a Christian, I am well aware we don't deserve much of what we get in life. Part of God's Grace to me is that I have had her in my life 21 years (married 17 this month).
Mar '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
2) There are many Christians who really do interpret that way. I know because I've lived among them.
That is frightening to me--not only because such women exist today, but because such men exist who are happy with that arrangement, and would cite one passage of Ephesians, excerpted from the whole Christian project, and make it determinative.
----
As to another matter entirely, I just wanted to remark on the fascinating eddies of discussion here on Ricochet.
I find myself in the bizarre position of defending Michele Bachmann against Byron York. If someone had asked me a week ago if I could see myself doing that (without specifying the circumstances) I think I would have answered "inconceivable".
As Princess Bride taught us, that word does not mean what we think that word means.
Sep '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
In today's pop culture, men submit to women. That's the way it is. Women submitting to men? Taboo.
May '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Crow's Nest: 2) There are many Christians who really do interpret that way. I know because I've lived among them.
That is frightening to me--not only because such women exist today, but because such men exist who are happy with that arrangement, and would cite one passage of Ephesians, excerpted from the whole Christian project, and make it determinative.
At least it's not as bad as the fundamentalist Muslim approach to marriage and women.
We have a lot of that in our society too.
Feb '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Mollie I want to thank you for writting a clear and concise description of what the NT really says about marriage and submission.
Nov '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
That was the kind of question that makes people watch an exhibition NFL game rather than these so-called debates. It definitely did not enhance Byron York in my opinion - and I've always considered him a bright guy. In fact, the question rivals the "Are you a flake" question put to Bachmann by Chris Wallace, who was deservedly smacked down by Newt Gingrich for his ridiculous "gotcha" question.
May '11
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
katievs
These Christians hold that Ephesians 5 assigns roles to the husband and wife, and that it is the wife's "duty in the Lord" to submit to her husband's leadership in all things, including such things as budget, clothing, home decorating, reading--everything. · Aug 12 at 9:19am
Edited on Aug 12 at 09:52 am
In many families it works for the wife to defer to the husband in prudential matters--which is not to say that she doesn't have an opinion, or that he doesn't listen to her. The husband's response is to consider the good of the entire family.
May '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
L.T. Rahe
katievs
These Christians hold that Ephesians 5 assigns roles to the husband and wife, and that it is the wife's "duty in the Lord" to submit to her husband's leadership in all things, including such things as budget, clothing, home decorating, reading--everything. · Aug 12 at 9:19am
Edited on Aug 12 at 09:52 am
In many families it works for the wife to defer to the husband in prudential matters--which is not to say that she doesn't have an opinion, or that he doesn't listen to her. The husband's response is to consider the good of the entire family. · Aug 12 at 10:56am
No doubt. But that sort of wife is not the sort of person who should be running for President. Wouldn't you agree?
Sep '10
Re: My Name's Mollie And I'm A Submissive Wife
Romans 13:1 says,"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established."
So as a good Christian, Mr. Bachmann would need to "be subject" to Madame President, even if she is his wife. And all of this is important to the election because. . . ?