Muslim Population
Ursula Hennessey ·
Jan 29, 2011 at 5:47am
I found the numbers presented in this Pew study about the future of the Muslim population to be interesting.
I found the video below to be somewhat moving. Not sure why.
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Jun '10
Re: Muslim Population
Assimilation works. I get that. So why are new immigrants not assessed for their ability to assimilate? Put everything else aside for a moment. Why do we not invite in people based on some sort of test to see if they can become Americans?
May '10
Re: Muslim Population
The video was moving, but it addresses none of the very real pathologies associated with Islam and therefore gives only half the picture.
If the reality were as innocuous as that clip, the "Islam question" would be a non-issue (equivalent to the "Hindu question," say), and life really would be a co-exist bumpersticker.
But it's not. And that's a big drag.
Jun '10
Re: Muslim Population
It's also easier to grow (in population) when you marry young, stay married, and you don't abort a third of all pregnancies. For family-oriented cultures, that welcome children, time is on their side.
May '10
Re: Muslim Population
Certainly more heartwarming than the ABC News video that came out last week of a 19 year old woman and male companion being stoned to death by the Taliban.
You can make any group of people look good, or bad with selective coverage.
Questions left unanswered include whether US Muslims are going to insist on Sharia when they comprise the same percentage of the population as Episcopalians?
Nov '10
Re: Muslim Population
I wonder if somewhere in the Muslim world, people are watching feel good videos about Christian immigration set to happy music? Let's hope that the demographic projections in the video are as inflated as the climate change projections we've been fed by the good people at USAToday.
Jul '10
Re: Muslim Population
I love that quote by Haroon Moghul:
"Fifty years ago, when you asked people 'Who do you think of when you think of a Muslim?', someone like Muhammed Ali would come up. And now, when you ask people, 'What do you think of when you think of a Muslim?', who are they gonna name?"
Well, why do you suppose that is?
Jan '11
Re: Muslim Population
A good question. Is it possible to be a good Muslim and fully support US law, including freedom of religion and freedom of speech? I'd like to know what people in the American Muslim community think about this question. Islam seems to be designed as a total world-view including law, government, business, and every other aspect of life.
I'd welcome an interpretation of Islam that would encourage Muslims to treat religion as a private, non-political matter. Sadly, the trend over the last 30 years seems to be going the other way.
Re: Muslim Population
I found this moving as well, Ursula. But like Nick above, there was really only one question that was running through my head -- the single most important question that they didn't have the courage to ask: What About Sharia?
That's it. That's the big question. And I'm a little weary of all of these "glorious mosaic" kind of happy-talk Muslim-immigrant sunshiney-days pieces in the media that don't ask that single most important question: do you, will you, support Sharia laws?
You can live under Sharia. Or you can be an American. You cannot be both.
Jun '10
Re: Muslim Population
"Questions left unanswered include whether US Muslims are going to insist on Sharia when they comprise the same percentage of the population as Episcopalians?"
Yup. Look to Great Britain & France for the answer.
"And I'm a little weary of all of these "glorious mosaic" kind of happy-talk Muslim-immigrant sunshiney-days pieces in the media that don't ask that single most important question: do you, will you, support Sharia laws?"
Me too. That's why I found nothing moving about the video. Before asking about Sharia, maybe just start by asking that dad if he'd let his wife or daughter take off her head scarf.
And Moghul throws around the Islamaphobia claim without recognizing it's pretty darn prudent to fear being blown to bits because you don't worhip Allah & religious leaders of Islam all over the world are commanding their followers to eliminate us infidels. That's not an irrational fear at all. What has he done, except have cute little kids march around a gym carrying flags of the world, to push back against the extremists?
Re: Muslim Population
Wow, I guess this only goes to show how out of touch I am. It's probably because I never see typical "media" stuff, but I am one of those people who is suspicious in my gut that most Muslims are secretly rooting for Sharia Law, everywhere and anyhow. Intellectually I know that's probably not true. But my heart is with the suspicions. This video caused my heart to finally feel something else.
In fact, for many, many weeks, this story has been spinning about in my head. not about Sharia, but more about the Atta-Ali dichotomy. Perhaps you've read about the dying Palestinian baby who was miraculously saved by Jewish doctors and benefactors. After his life-saving operation -- paid for and performed by Israelis -- his mother announced that she still hoped he would grow up to be a suicide bomber. This story, unfortunately, has colored me more than anything else.
So, in this case, the video caused me to feel a little something different than rage and suspicion. I know there's a happy medium in which to live. I'm not there yet. For me, this video tempered that emotional, ignorant side of me.
Edited on Jan 29, 2011 at 12:29pmOct '10
Re: Muslim Population
The video is moving - it always moves me when an immigrant praises America in a way a leftist, or a college professor (same thing) never could.
However, when I hear a Muslim mention freedom of religion, I wonder exactly what they mean. Freedom to get a job at a bar, or restaurant, and then refuse to serve alcohol, or pork? Freedom to wear a niqab into a bank, or while driving? Freedom to be offended by a nativity scene, or a crucifix? Freedom to punish blasphemers and apostates as their prophet tells them?
Rob is right, Sharia is the key to everything. Claire mentioned how many different flavors of Sharia are practiced all over the world; actually, there are only a handful of authoritative sources of Islamic Sharia law. Technically, all those countries are combining Sharia with other sources of law, not different types of Sharia. Then, pious Muslim like OBL can easily show how the 'Islamic' government is deviating from the Sharia path, proving the government is innovating, or perverting, Islam.
Attaturk was more right then he was wrong. Maybe scarves are ok, but Sharia is not.
Jul '10
Re: Muslim Population
The 1965 immigration reform act (thanks, Teddy Kennedy) was designed specifically to restrict immigration from Western Europe, where the most assimilable candidates reside.
Jul '10
Re: Muslim Population
The video was nothing but the usual soft-soap. I find nothing moving about it; on the contrary, the injection of the term "islamophobia" disgusts me.
And the assertion that Muslims fought in the Revolutionary War? Laughable.
Jun '10
Re: Muslim Population
Its moving because it is a CAIR propaganda piece. No more true than that the Ground Zero Mosque is an inter-faith community center. They are a danger, pure and simple. Sadly America has been de-Christianized, The atheist left will, like a fifth column, assist in islamification of the West. They will be the second, or third in line to the trains bound for the "Ayatollah Khomeni Memorial Gulag and Re-Education Camp"
Jun '10
Re: Muslim Population
"For me, this video tempered that emotional, ignorant side of me."
Ursula, what exactly is ignorant about recognizing many Muslims insist on Sharia law being put in place throughout the world? Coupled with the demographic advantage Muslims have, which Mark Steyn has been warning about for years, this is the #1 threat to the West.
When the University of Notre Dame tries to bring in a Muslim Brotherhood leader and honor him with a distinguished professorship, I worry that we're doomed. (Bush kept him out, but Obama just last week lifted the ban......coincidence?)
The lies and deception put out by the CAIR crowd, and lapped up by the willing press, should make us all suspicious of broad claims that all Muslims will embrace Western freedoms and democracy. Only ignorant people would swallow the claims wholesale without doing a bit of digging. The idea that Arab moms & dads all simply want the same thing for their kids as American moms & dads is absurd. Suicide bomber isn't (yet) a dream career goal Americans hold for their kids.
Re: Muslim Population
StickerShock:
... should make us all suspicious of broad claims that all Muslims will embrace Western freedoms and democracy.
Only ignorant people would swallow the claims wholesale without doing a bit of digging. The idea that Arab moms & dads all simply want the same thing for their kids as American moms & dads is absurd. Suicide bomber isn't (yet) a dream career goal Americans hold for their kids.
In response to the first statement I bolded, the video didn't make that claim. In fact, the Pew gentleman said he had no idea what kind of Muslims would be populating here. Followers of Al Qaeda or not? He didn't know. We don't know, either. Many deeply held beliefs of parents are completely watered down or absent two generations later.
As to the second statement, that's the kind of ignorance, I too, am guilty of at times. But, I think there are some, perhaps many, American Muslims who *do* want the same things for their children that we want for ours. This video gave me a glimpse into that possibility. To think they are all a few years away from blowing us all to pieces is ignorant.
Jun '10
Re: Muslim Population
The fellow who conducted the Pew demographic study discussed demographics. He was in no position to speak to democracy or freedom.
It was the others featured in the video who purposely ignored the Sharia question. Moghul jumped right to the tired old chestnut of Islamophobia. It was a propoganda film, plain and simple. Did you notice that the very first flag shown was Israel's??? Not too subtle, ha ha!
Are American Muslims only "a few years away from blowing us all to pieces?" Of course not. I am comparing Americans to Arabs. Isn't it true that suicide bombers are revered in much of the Arab world? Haven't you seen Arab mothers interviewd, expressing a desire to have their children be martyrs? Fortunately, I believe this would be a very rare belief among American Muslims. But once Sharia sneaks into Western legal systems, there will undoubtedly be more of the martyr-aspiring brand of Muslims. It will be much more lethal than family honor killings and oppression of women. The video sugar coats the real damgers that this demographic trend brings. Failing to recognize that is ignorance.
Re: Muslim Population
But, StickerShock, how can any of us know "the real dangers that this demographic trend brings"? It's an assumption, no? If you read my earlier comment, you would see that I know plenty of the evils, hence the link I provided. As I explained, my default position has been to assume the worst here. Like you, apparently. The figures frightened me. But that is ignorant. Really, what we should all do is be keenly aware and prepared for both possibilities -- 1) peaceful, supportive [of US ideals] assimilation or 2) a passive-aggressive, increasingly scary takeover of all that our nation holds dear. Assuming one over the other, at this point, is ignorant. And a bit knee-jerk. Being open to either possibility is more pragmatic, isn't it? I have been assuming 2; this video gave me a glimpse at 1. What is so wrong with that experience?
Edited on Jan 30, 2011 at 6:07pmRe: Muslim Population
Jul '10
Re: Muslim Population
Sure Ursula, but that's not always true. To wit:
http://www.america.gov/st/peopleplace-english/2006/December/20061214174958berehellek0.8237268.html
"As the children of generations of immigrants to the United States have grown up, they often have drifted away from the cultures of their parents’ home countries. But some experts believe children of Muslim immigrants are different."
http://www.jhubc.it/ecpr-riga/virtualpaperroom/026.pdf
"Contrary to expectations that Muslim immigrants would successfully
assimilate, they are reaffirming their Islamic identity, as a new political identification, and some of them turn to terrorism against their adopted country."
http://www.nixoncenter.org/Leiken-Menace09.pdf
"In Europe, Muslim descendents of immigrants achieve outcomes—in education, employment, income, and housing—that are, according to studies, inferior to those of non-Muslim post-migrants, as well as to those of natives.
These statistics notwithstanding, most European Muslims are not Islamist. Even fewer, of course, are extremist or violent. However, when an angry son of migrants explains his own and others’ downward mobility in a narrative of Muslim oppression, we may get a terrorist wannabe."