Music and Demography in America
I'm well aware that chamber music concerts in Seattle are not where you'd go to see a representative sample of America's demography. But as with so many things that seem obvious, when I ask myself "Why not?," I have trouble coming up with a satisfying answer.
Last night I was looking at an audience so white and elderly that were you visiting from another planet, you'd guess that everyone in America is white and elderly--unless you were looking at the musicians themselves.
So, big surprise: Only elderly white people like chamber music. That's so obvious it doesn't bear saying, right? Except that it's not. I cannot think of a single reason why it should be this way.
Mendelssohn's Quartet for Piano and Strings in F minor, Op. 2, was on the program. He composed it when he was a child. If I had no previous cultural knowledge of the kinds of music people tend to like, I would have guessed--wrongly--that no human being alive would listen to that and think, "This is music for old, elite people and I can't see why they like it." Nothing about the music itself suggests why it would be pleasing only to the elderly and affluent. All of my instincts would lead me to predict that the appeal of this music would be universal and that anyone, on first exposure to it, would say, "Hey, that is obviously better than Amy Winehouse."
I get it completely why playing golf, say, would be more appealing to wealthy old people than playing basketball. There are obvious biological and economic reasons for that--recreational golf is fairly physically undemanding but it costs a lot to play it. (I've never played golf: It looks immensely boring to me and I can't afford it.)
But the way that only old white people like Mendelssohn just doesn't make sense. Almost everyone likes looking at animals and almost everyone comes to a similar judgment about them: Tigers are great, slugs, not so much. It would be very odd to discover that only old white people liked looking at tigers, wouldn't it?
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Sep '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
Maybe this question isn't as baffling as I thought. Maybe that's the simple, sad answer.
I'm reading Musicophilia by Oliver Sacks, MD right now.
Jun '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
Popular culture overwhelms all in its path. I'm a classical fan (both orchestral and opera) and have tried to interest my children (all adults) in both kinds. Not much luck. One of my daughters likes some of it, but not wholeheartedly.
TV has geared our minds to 10-12 minute segments--some Bruckner symphonies are well over an hour, and have movements that are 30+ minutes long. Younger people, for the most part, have a hard time with that.
I have a test for whether someone could become an opera fan. Have them listen to or see La Boheme. If they hate it, there is no hope (because there isn't a more accessible opera). If they like it, then start introducing them to Mozart and Verdi.
Edited on July 29, 2011 at 12:31amJun '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
tabula rasa:
I have a test for whether someone could become an opera fan. Have them listen to or see La Boheme. If they hate it, there is no hope (because there isn't a more accessible opera). If they like it, then start introducing them to Mozart and Verdi.
I'd say Carmen is the most accessible opera. Who can resist the Toreador Chorus?
May '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
StickerShock: "(Don't even go there with the question of why we don't take the kids. Ask me when they turn 50.)"
Matthew --- If you don't start taking them while they are young, & playing the music around the house & in the car, they'll never want to attend when they reach their 50s. Classical music will seem foreign, and completely unaccessible. It's like a foreign language -- very tough to absorb if you are only exposed to it as an adult. · Jul 28 at 10:10am
My apologies for the head fake - we certainly plan to do so when they are old enough to appreciate it and sit still through a performance. I was trying for a little sarcastic humor and obviously didn't lay it on thick enough.
In the meantime, a narrated CD of the Nutcracker and a Prokofiev collection are a nice way to ease them in.
Mar '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Peter Halpin
Abdiel,
But if my first reason is entirely of the mark, maybe you can explain why nobody ever walks around humming Schoenberg's (or anyone else's) atonal pieces, let alone listening to it.
Well, one of the basic premises of the 2nd Viennese school was the idea that melody is only one aspect to music, and that in order to fully explore musical possibilities composers had to create a new system for organizing tones. The 1st of these systems was Schoenberg's twelve tone technique. All other aspects of music carry over into this new system. Dodecaphonic compositions even retain something quite similar to modulation.
The source of Bach & Stravinsky's genius wasn't simply the ability coming up with a catchy tunes. They explored the limits counterpoint and rhythm respectively. Modern music attempts to preserve that tradition. Composers are trying to constantly expand the amount of tones that can be played together. Then there's a strong trend among 20th century composers to make their works as contrapuntal as possible.
All of that may be difficult for 1st time listeners to absorb. But once you work things out, the music really does make sense.
Edited on July 29, 2011 at 1:23amMar '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Joseph Stanko
By the same token many people who love Renaissance and Impressionist paintings would not set foot in a modern art museum and, if they did, would make remarks like "my toddler's finger paintings are better than that." I think there's a connection here. · Jul 28 at 3:07pm
You're right in that there is a connection. However, you connected the wrong things :/. What you describe is something which the modern atonal (formerly atonal actually) composer Pierre Boulez laments about frequently, especially with regard to Mondrian's later works. Frauds producing minimalistic, unimaginative, meaningless art and trying to pass it as quality craftsmanship.
Minimalism is the musical equivalent of the trend you describe in visual arts. There are a lot of fraudulent artists out there. But I think it's the people who try to pass off simple, minimalistic, meaningless art as high art who are the frauds, not the people who're actually trying to expand and innovate art.
A 5 year old could compose some of the things we see coming out of the minimalist camp. The same is not true of anything Stravinsky or Boulez wrote.
Edited on July 29, 2011 at 1:12amJun '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
Abdiel
A 5 year old could compose some of the things we see coming out of the minimalist camp. The same is not true of anything Stravinsky or Boulez wrote. · Jul 28 at 4:08pm
That's certainly true. I think there's another connection, however, between abstraction in painting and atonality in music. There's a lot more to painting than simply trying to create a realistic image, but even a child could look at Sunday Afternoon on the Island of the Grand-Jatte and immediately recognize that it's a painting of a group of people on a beach. The representation of something connects with viewers in a way that abstract shapes rarely do.
I think melody plays a similar role in making music accessible. You can play Beethoven's 5th to someone who has never heard it before, then ask them to hum it back and they'll remember "duh duh duh DA, duh duh duh DA." Whereas you have to study music to "get" a twelve tone composition. It's definitely an acquired taste, to say the least.
May '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
tabula rasa: I have a test for whether someone could become an opera fan. Have them listen to or see La Boheme. If they hate it, there is no hope (because there isn't a more accessible opera). If they like it, then start introducing them to Mozart and Verdi. · Jul 28 at 3:30pm
Edited on Jul 28 at 03:31 pm
I failed that test but that is my loss. However, I was on a group bus tour of Italy nearly twenty years ago and we had dinner at some large tourist trap in the countryside where in addition to a buffet we were serenaded by a grey haired opera tenor. In our group was a woman named Flora who was suffering from early Alzheimer's disease and everyone had made fun of her throughout the trip. Our tour leader called her up to sing because as it turned out she had been a true diva married to the conductor of the Metropolitan Opera in New York. When she began to sing the grey haired tenor rushed back on stage to join in and everyone in our group who had made fun of her were silenced.
Mar '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Joseph Stanko
Whereas you have to study music to "get" a twelve tone composition. It's definitely an acquired taste, to say the least. · Jul 28 at 4:57pm
Not necessarily. My own "credentials", besides listening to music and attempting (poorly) to play the piano, is one class in music appreciation, a few books, and some extended time reading the letters composers have written (Brahms being the most enjoyable ^^). So as far as musical knowledge goes I'd never claim to be more knowledgeable than anyone else :P.
But if you listen to compositions like Pierrot Lunaire long enough, you eventually become able to discern and separate the different "voices" in the music, and pick out various patterns in them. It's comparable to learning a new language.
I recall there was a study done somewhere in eastern europe where children were brought up listening to atonal music. The results were predictable, the children grew up finding it perfectly normal and most enjoyed it.
As for abstractness, without words isn't all music fairly abstract/subjective? What one experiences listening to music is entirely dependent on the listener. One chord may affect one person entirely different from another.
Apr '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Abdiel,
Thanks for your comments. Regarding modern classical music, or at least the atonal style that I was referring to, let's put aside the question of its artistic merits, (and I would agree that merely coming up with a good melody represents the totality of musical genius). The more pertinent question is: what were the effects of this school on the culture's love of music? Maybe my initial claim was too strong; I'm open to amending it. But I have read repeatedly that many modern composers felt that they were essentially forced into composing in this style. The atonal school was not merely an interesting, cutting-edge musical exploration, but a movement that demanded adherence if one was to be considered relevant. I realize that this is a generalized claim, and based on your knowledge you probably can parse this argument into more exacting specificity. But ultimately, I think there is a rather thin line between challenging your audience to achieve deeper/newer understandings of the good, the true, and the beautiful in art, and the sophistry that you yourself acknowledge in much musical minimalism, and I see in much, but not necessarily all, atonal music.
Apr '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Abdiel,
Your mentioning of the Eastern European kids thinking atonal music sounded normal is interesting. I have read that the complete opposite is true, and that there is something innate in the human response to what I guess I'll call Western tonality (diatonic?). I'll have to track down the article.
Mar '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Peter Halpin: Abdiel,
But ultimately, I think there is a rather thin line between challenging your audience to achieve deeper/newer understandings of the good, the true, and the beautiful in art, and the sophistry that you yourself acknowledge in much musical minimalism, and I see in much, but not necessarily all, atonal music. · Jul 28 at 5:15pm
Another interesting tidbit, modern composer aren't atonalists/twelve tonalists.
Somewhere between the late 70s-80s nearly all modern composers went back to composing tonal works. Boulez, Birtwistle, even Carter. They claimedt composing in twelve tone was too limiting, rather like trying to write a fugue or canon. For an example of a tonal piece of modern music, take a look at Boulez's Notations for Orchestra VII (which should be on youtube I think).
I don't think composers are deliberately trying to challenge audiences. They're just pursuing their philosophical view of music to it's logical conclusion. And orchestras interested in music theory play modern music in order to keep up with whats going on in the art.
But I don't see any reason why new music would keep people away from the old.
Jun '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
Abdiel
As for abstractness, without words isn't all music fairly abstract/subjective? What one experiences listening to music is entirely dependent on the listener. One chord may affect one person entirely different from another. · Jul 28 at 5:14pm
Abstract, yes. And, for the most part, I prefer music with words: opera, sacred, and popular/rock.
Not sure that makes it subjective, though. Don't you think that if you took the children you mentioned that were brought up listening to atonal music and played them Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and Orff's O Fortuna, they would use words like soothing, romantic, and calm to describe the former and dramatic, passionate, and dark to describe the latter? Granted O Fortuna has words, but you don't need to speak Latin to get the sense this is not a romantic love poem.
Edited on July 29, 2011 at 2:35amMay '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
I am not surprised that Ricoteers support classical music but I am somewhat surprised that so far I am the only elderly white person who enjoys Amy Winehouse more than chamber music.
May '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
My 78 year old father is on the board of his local chamber music society. He's one of the younger board members. His suggestion to advertise their organization thru Facebook went down like a led balloon. Chamber Music might just have a marketing problem. I find chamber music quite delightful and I'm dissapointed in myself for not going to more concerts.
Mar '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
Joseph Stanko
Abstract, yes. And, for the most part, I prefer music with words: opera, sacred, and popular/rock.
Not sure that makes it subjective, though. Don't you think that if you took the children you mentioned that were brought up listening to atonal music and played them Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and Orff's O Fortuna, they would use words like soothing, romantic, and calm to describe the former and dramatic, passionate, and dark to describe the latter? Granted O Fortuna has words, but you don't need to speak Latin to get the sense this is not a romantic love poem. · Jul 28 at 5:35pm
Edited on Jul 28 at 05:35 pm
Those words are pretty generalized though, they could also evem be used to describe Berg's Violin Concerto. One of the main goals of serialists is to present several of those emotions at once.
Also, I'd be curious to see how you guys feel about modern tonal compositions like the one I mentioned earlier (notations for orchestra). If it turns out people still dislike modern tonal music, then clearly this isn't about tonality.
Edited on July 29, 2011 at 2:53amMay '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
I love everything from John Zorns' atonal screeching alto sax to Bachs' Brandenburg Concertos to Brittany Spears catchy "Hit me baby one more time." Most music has something redeemable. Music is to be enjoyed no matter what genre it is in.
Jun '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
Abdiel
Also, I'd be curious to see how you guys feel about modern tonal compositions like the one I mentioned earlier (notations for orchestra). If it turns out people still dislike modern tonal music, then clearly this isn't about tonality.
I just listened to it on YouTube. Initial reaction: it sounded like the soundtrack from a late-night sci-fi movie. The heroes are exploring a strange alien landscape, but unbeknownst to them a large reptilian alien is stalking them...
Jun '10
Re: Music and Demography in America
thelonious
I love everything from John Zorns' atonal screeching alto sax to Bachs' Brandenburg Concertos to Brittany Spears catchy "Hit me baby one more time."
Max Martin is an unrecognized genius.
May '11
Re: Music and Demography in America
thelonious
I love everything from John Zorns' atonal screeching alto sax to Bachs' Brandenburg Concertos to Brittany Spears catchy "Hit me baby one more time." Most music has something redeemable. Music is to be enjoyed no matter what genre it is in. · Jul 28 at 5:58pm
I am headed to the internet to sample John Zorns' screeching alto sax. It might be something I could appreciate. Brittany Spears' 'Hit me baby one more time" is a good example of what is both good in one sense and reprehensible in a larger sense in pop music today. Amy Winehouse lived a very self destructive trashy life but created music that will at least expose her fans to a great tradition of blues in music.