Mosqueteria
Canuckski ·
Jul 13, 2011 at 9:01am
Check out Steyn's commentary on Friday prayers at a Toronto public school. Yes, a public school. School officials have allowed an imam to hold Friday prayers in the school cafeteria. Boys at the front, girls at the back; and menstruating girls at the very back, where they can't contaminate anyone.
Any bets on holding a Catholic Mass in that school? Fundamentalist revival?
I know that part of Toronto well, and it has undergone a huge transformation due to Muslim immigration. A couple of years ago, I noticed signs at the department store at a local mall inviting everyone to Iftar (it was Ramadan) with complementary dates and water. Know your clients!
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Comments :
Re: Mosqueteria
While agreeing completely with Steyn's argument--this is why we don't have religious ceremonies in public schools--I want to point out that Orthodox Jews also segregate men from women in prayer, consider menstruating women unclean, and require women to cover their heads. None of this has any place in public schools in the West.
Sep '10
Re: Mosqueteria
The only part that burns me about the article (because this has been going on for many years and doesn't shock me at all anymore) is the National Post writer asking "What is this the Middle Ages"?
No. No. No.
If you want to complain about "Dark Age" or "7th Century" throwbacks then get your historical time periods correct: Its called "Late Antiquity".
Sep '10
Re: Mosqueteria
You give ’em an inch, and they’ll take the rest.
The Ricochet CoC prevents me from making a joke out of this SteynLine.
Jul '11
Re: Mosqueteria
The farther I can have menstruating girls away from me the better. Anyone who saw Grizzlyman knows they attract potential bear maulings.
How anyone can accept(let alone Canadians) the inherent misogyny of this religion is just beyond me. How is not this the soft jihad the ladder rung below the bomb throwers espoused?
May '10
Re: Mosqueteria
The barbarians have breached the gate.
Oct '10
Re: Mosqueteria
Coming to a US school near you... if it isn't already happening in Detroit.
And Clair, although I truly love you and admire your clarity, I simply want to point out that a mere 55 years ago, in Philadelphia public schools, Mr. Blair, the principal, read from Psalms every morning, our celebration of Christmas was Christian/secular, and my Jewish friends celebrated Hanukkah, with our friendship if not participation.
America once had a common culture, in which we acknowledged the Judeo-Christian God, even as we sometimes argued over how He is worshiped.
We have lost so much that we can never recover.
Feb '11
Re: Mosqueteria
The president and executive director of Islamic Social Services Association Inc – Canada, Shahina Siddiqui answers the critics with the following article:
Secular extremists ignore tradition of diversity
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1023918--secular-extremists-ignore-tradition-of-diversity
Edited on Jul 13, 2011 at 9:54amDec '10
Re: Mosqueteria
"While agreeing completely with Steyn's argument--this is why we don't have religious ceremonies in public schools--I want to point out that Orthodox Jews also segregate men from women in prayer, consider menstruating women unclean, and require women to cover their heads. None of this has any place in public schools in the West. " Agreed, but we know difference is that Orthodox Jews don't believe women are second to men. Many older public schools in Toronto still have the remnants of the old days: one entrance for boys and another for girls, but as we know the girls were not second class to the boys, just separate. The picture of the girls sitting behind the boys is what caught my eye when I first read the article. Interesting that the author of the article a lefty/feminist wonders why she is the only one pointing out these things, and I agree with her in the sense that in her little world she is one of the few people pointing this out. As we all know here, many conservatives have been questioning for years: where are the feminists when it comes to addressing the mysogyny of Islam.
Jun '10
Re: Mosqueteria
While Orthodox Jews have ideas about female modesty and purity that most of us would find extreme, many of the reasons for having different rules for women and men are an acknowledgment of the different natures of men and women. Plenty of it is quite unappealing, and very chauvanistic. But at its core the orthodox rules have a foundation in love for women and respect for family. I don't see any honor killings and stoning or beating condoned in the Orthodox Jewish world.
Mar '11
Re: Mosqueteria
Absolutely, Claire, there are two separate issues. Religious practice is an issue about which people can have differing opinions. Most people would agree that in the private sphere of home and church/shul/mosque, adherents can follow whatever practice they want.
The religious use of a secular space from which other religions have effectively been banned is quite another.
The gradual imposition of Muslim practice into the public sphere of the West is disturbing. If Muslims can require such separations in a religious service in a public school, what about separation in other parts of the school -- classrooms, buses, cafeteria, etc.?
There was already a move in Ontario to introduce components of Sharia, which the government leader (a wishy-washy liberal) had to publicly repudiiate.
Nov '10
Re: Mosqueteria
What I'm curious about is how this story is spreading through the media. Any bets on when the CBC reports on this story, if they do it at all?
Dec '10
Re: Mosqueteria
Pseudodionysius: You give ’em an inch, and they’ll take the rest.
The Ricochet CoC prevents me from making a joke out of this SteynLine. · Jul 13 at 5:22am
I suppose that this is just the tip of the story. Even so, I don't like the way it feels so far.
Dec '10
Re: Mosqueteria
Silly question which demonstrates my lack of knowledge of Islam, but why are the menstruating girls even in attendance if they are not allowed to participate in the prayers?
Mar '11
Re: Mosqueteria
Yes, men and women are separated during prayer. But women can be parallel, or in front, and there is NO stigma for menstruation.
Orthodox Judaism does NOT consider menstruation unclean. This is a mistranslation of a word that essentially means "spiritual state of failed creation." It applies to those who touch insects, have had a seminal emission, proximity to anything dead, and the like. Jewish law forbids couples from having intercourse in this state - without "regrounding" in water connected to the earth. You may or may not like it, but it is NOT something that singles out women. If anyone wants to know more, see http://midrashicmusings.blogspot.com/2009/10/mikvah-musings.html
As for the last point: married women cover their heads - but often with wigs that make them look as if the head is not covered . Unmarried women do not.
Aug '10
Re: Mosqueteria
Lest we think this only goes on in Soviet Canuckistan...
Mar '11
Re: Mosqueteria
I agree that it is wrong to make any religion the dominant practise in any public school.It is especially wrong when the religion promotes anti-democratic values of any kind.
But I worry that we are just replacing one kind of engineering with another. This is a key problem with public schools anyway, and an argument for vouchers and charter schools.
The purpose of school is to educate, not impose a state-approved view of the world. But public schools, by their very nature, have always been corruptible by the same "teacher knows best" attitude, which inflates to include all sorts of nonsense that should not be receiving taxpayer dollars.
Parents know best. Give parents/schools money for the required secular education. If parents want to spend their own money to supplement it in some way (and somewhere else) then they can do so.
Oct '10
Re: Mosqueteria
Canuckski
Boys at the front, girls at the back; and menstruating girls at the very back, where they can't contaminate anyone.
Given their posture and seating arrangement at prayer, I would think it would be more important to segregate anyone with gastrointestinal challenges.
On a serious note... I don't know how any father could stand seeing his daughter being subjected to second class treatment. It would break my heart to see my daughter treated like that.
Feb '11
Re: Mosqueteria
There is no public manifestation of such "uncleanliness" (what a terrible translation!) in Judaism. And any head-covering for women is only for marrieds.
Mar '11
Re: Mosqueteria
Lo Fon
On a serious note... I don't know how any father could stand seeing his daughter being subjected to second class treatment. It would break my heart to see my daughter treated like that. · Jul 13 at 10:50am
This is a society where honor killings and forced marriages are accepted, and sometimes encouraged. Suicide bombers are celebrated. Martyrdom for the sake of the cause is praised without restraint.
Do you really think those fathers think about their daughters the way you think about yours?
Jul '11
Re: Mosqueteria
iWc
Lo Fon
On a serious note... I don't know how any father could stand seeing his daughter being subjected to second class treatment. It would break my heart to see my daughter treated like that. · Jul 13 at 10:50am
This is a society where honor killings and forced marriages are accepted, and sometimes encouraged. Suicide bombers are celebrated. Martyrdom for the sake of the cause is praised without restraint.
Do you really think those fathers think about their daughters the way you think about yours? · Jul 13 at 10:57am
When you are taught from birth to value women at half or two thirds that of a man you do not achieve any sort of real love for them as a human being but rather something far less.
The only answer to the malignancy of islamic repression will come from the education and eventual revolt from the fairer and emotionally stronger sex in this world. In the end, the women will triumph but after how much blood on the sand?
Edited on Jul 13, 2011 at 11:15am