Morning Howler
I revere the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal, but, as the saying goes, even Homer nods. This morning the Journal produces a howler.
In an editorial entitled "Islam's Christians," the Journal writes that the persecution of the Christian minority in Iraq "raises questions about contemporary Islam's ability to coexist with non-Islamic peoples," as indeed it does. But then:
Some of these Christian minorities have coexisted with Islam in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East since the time of Jesus.
Well, uh, no. Since Islam didn't exist until the seventh century, the Christian minorities predate Islam by more than half a millenium. When it emerged, in other words, Islam set about subjugating a religion and culture that had dominated the Middle East for centuries.
And then this:
With the rise of radical Islam, this tradition of peaceful and productive coexistence has been displaced by a practice of religious cleansing.
Right enough--radical Islam is something new and nasty. But "peaceful and productive coexistence?" Not exactly. Arrangements varied from time to time and place to place, but Islam for centuries placed Christians--and, for that matter Jews--under special penalties and obligations, forcing them to pay special taxes, limiting their participation in public life, restricting them, in the great cities, to certain neighborhoods, and so on.
In a word, the ability of Islam to co-exist with non-Islamic peoples is a much, much older question than even the sainted editors of the Wall Street Journal seem to grasp.
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Comments :
May '10
Re: Morning Howler
This tension between Ricochet and the WSJ has existed since the time of Edward Jones.
Re: Morning Howler
That's just a very odd set of errors for them to make.
Re: Morning Howler
This is true, of course, but I'd hate to try to total up the various religious restrictions and penalties that have been levied by Muslims on Christians and Jews or by Christians on Muslims and Jews. (The Jews, as always, get it from both sides....) I'm not certain at all that Christians would come out ahead.
The problem, I think, is that as Christianity has, in general, become more tolerant, Islam has been moving in the other direction.
Sep '10
Re: Morning Howler
Rob Long
This is true, of course, but I'd hate to try to total up the various religious restrictions and penalties that have been levied by Muslims on Christians and Jews or by Christians on Muslims and Jews. (The Jews, as always, get it from both sides....) I'm not certain at all that Christians would come out ahead.
The problem, I think, is that as Christianity has, in general, become more tolerant, Islam has been moving in the other direction. · Dec 14 at 10:47am
Paging Bat Ye'or
Sep '10
Re: Morning Howler
Rob Long
This is true, of course, but I'd hate to try to total up the various religious restrictions and penalties that have been levied by Muslims on Christians and Jews or by Christians on Muslims and Jews. (The Jews, as always, get it from both sides....) I'm not certain at all that Christians would come out ahead.
The problem, I think, is that as Christianity has, in general, become more tolerant, Islam has been moving in the other direction. · Dec 14 at 10:47am
I like the last statement of the trend of the problems, but I would not concede equivalence of Christians and Muslims regarding treatment of each other. I will leave the jews aside for now. There is no equal of the Ottoman treatment of Armenians. This is even more compelling when you consider that the West has held military hegemony over the Muslims for 500 years or more. Imagine if Islam had been militarily dominant during this time period. I think if we are honest, we know deep down that there is a real difference and it would be much worse if not for western power.
May '10
Re: Morning Howler
Islam by its nature makes imperial demands. It requires people to completely obliterate and forget their past. It goes against the rest of humanity's wish to cherish its past, to understand its past. So, when people keep on destroying their past, they are in a mess, and we are seeing it around us. - VS Naipaul on Islam, Charlie Rose, Jan. 25, 2000
Except for Iran, we are currently witnessing the resurgence of fundamentalist Sunni Arab imperialism that goes back to the defeat of the Ottomans and truly began with the birth of Israel.
Edited on Dec 14, 2010 at 11:56amOct '10
Re: Morning Howler
I'm glad to see people are talking about the character of the two religions with respect to freedom and tolerance for other faiths. It does get complicated when you're talking about Muslims and Christians since they're both imperfect. I think the best way to judge the character of the religion is to look at the central figure in each. It helps to show what trends are a natural outgrowth of the religion which are not. We are talk about how Islam needs a "reformation" of sorts but we can't be sure that it could or would happen.
May '10
Re: Morning Howler
Rob Long
This is true, of course, but I'd hate to try to total up the various religious restrictions and penalties that have been levied by Muslims on Christians and Jews or by Christians on Muslims and Jews. (The Jews, as always, get it from both sides....) I'm not certain at all that Christians would come out ahead.
The problem, I think, is that as Christianity has, in general, become more tolerant, Islam has been moving in the other direction. · Dec 14 at 10:47am
Rob, Christians most certainly do come out ahead of Muslims when it comes to treatment of Jews. There is no scripture in Christianity that says to kill Jews or disrespect them. European Jew-hatred has no basis in Christianity - rather it's based on pre-Christian nationalism or racism or whatever.
Please don't say things that you think sound true when you don't know the history or the scriptures.
Jul '10
Re: Morning Howler
Reached for comment about Islamic traditions of peaceful and productive co-existence, 1.5 million Armenians responded, "Well, we wouldn't know about that. Because we're dead."