Misjudging Mitt
I can’t quite figure out how Mitt Romney has acquired such a bad smell to so many conservatives. Last time around he had his issues of course: flip-flopping and Mormonism. Still, many were impressed with his strong business credentials, his remarkable turn around of the 2002 Winter Olympics, his ability as a Republican to get elected in Massachusetts, one of the deep-blue states. In 2008 his work on Massachusetts health care reform was a source of credibility when he discussed the issue of healthcare. He even won the endorsement of National Review, the standard bearer of conservatism. Now if one peruses The Corner or reads some of the articles posted at NRO one would think he’d been outed as a child molester. Most of the comments are dismissive of his chances and many are downright hostile. Romneycare no longer conveys authority regarding health care issues, it is a poison pill. I suspect there is an unvoiced segment that doesn’t like him simply because he’s Mormon. How disgusting that conservatives could let themselves fall prey to such bigotry. I just don’t get it. Do Republicans seriously trust Donald Trump’s commitment to conservatism, religion and integrity over Mitt Romney’s? I supported him in 2008 and I support him now!
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Dec '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
I think you misjudge those who do not support Romney. Sure, there may be some who find his religion a sticking point, but I think more find his unwavering commitment to whatever platform will get him elected more troublesome. Personally, I think of him as the Stepford candidate. I could never vote for someone who comes off as so unnatural and manufactured. Side point, since when has having anything to do with a multicultural, money losing proposition like the Olympics been a conservative position?
Mar '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
King Prawn: That's a pretty easy question to answer about the Olympics. Romney wasn't involved when they were awarded to Salt Lake City. However, when the group running it was involved in scandal and the prospects for them turning out profitable were bleak, Romney accepted the call to step in. He turned them around so that they weren't "money losing" but instead turned a profit. It has less to do with conservatism than with competence. I grant you that he can be stiff and unnatural. That just doesn't seem to be big deal to me. I want someone who has the know how and experience to turn our economy around.
Jun '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
" I suspect there is an unvoiced segment that doesn’t like him simply because he’s Mormon. How disgusting that conservatives could let themselves fall prey to such bigotry."
I don't think you should make this leap. It's just your suspicion -- no evidence that I've seen would back this up.
Anyway, I don't think being critical of a politician's religion is bigotry if one can find serious flaws with that religion, or have evidence that the politician would place his loyalty to his religion over his loyalty to uphold the US Constitution. If a Muslim candidate were to seek sharia compliance, I'd do everthing in my power to defeat him. I can't think of a single conflict that exists for Mormans and serving in public office, though. There are enough reasons to be sour on Mitt --- no need to bring in his Mormon faith.
Aug '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
Romney is blandness personified. I admire his organizational acumen, and aside from Romneycare, he seems very competent. But notice that he has no sense of urgency on debt/deficit issues. There's no fire in his eyes or his words. Of course, almost none - or any - of the leading GOP contenders stepped up to support Ryan and his budget plan.A pox on all their houses.
I've known many Mormons, and I like them individually. Mormonism itself, though, is like a cult. It's really a stretch to take their theology at face value. It's not bigotry to think Mormons might have flaws in their thinking process.
Edited on Apr 20, 2011 at 8:28amMar '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
StickerShock: Hmmm. I hope there is more truth to what you say that there appears to me. There are actually a number of polls out there that show that Americans (not necessarily conservatives) have a negative opinion of Mormons. In one poll done by Fox and released in December 2006 it showed that for 46% of Americans a candidate being Mormon would make a difference in their vote. Quoting from Fox's news release regarding that poll: "...among white Evangelical Christians, a key voting group for Republican candidates: 3 percent say they would be more likely to vote for Romney, 28 percent less likely and 65 percent "no difference" " because of his Mormonism. Part of Huckabee's success was his ability to pry away voters from Romney based on his religion. In a Pew Research Poll done in December 2007 they found that "Overall, one-in-four respondents to a recent nationwide Pew survey said that they would be less likely to vote for a Mormon candidate for president." I don't know how many Republican Primary voters hold these views but I would urge them to think twice before casting a vote on that basis.
Mar '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
River: I rest my case. Perhaps you can name a religion out there the formation of which doesn't rest on some unprovable and, in the minds of many, fantastic claims. I'd be very interested on what basis you define Mormonism a "cult." In my understanding of the word and my intimate understanding of the religion in question it is no more a cult than any other religion. To then add that being a Mormon brings into question the "thinking process" of a believer ignores the numerous accomplished and successful thinkers in all fields who are members of that church. It sounds very similar to those who dismiss believers in God of all stripes for the same reason.
May '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
I could not care less whether he is a Mormon, Muslim, Jew, or a follower of Khlysty version of Orthodox Christianity (look it up, it's good for a laugh). They are all cults, or not, depending on your point of view (like the Moonies. or the homeless)
Romneycare is going to send Massachusetts sick and broke, and is hardly a glowing endorsement of competence in government.This together with a political lack of key differentiation between Obamacare and Romneycare will be a millstone around Romney's neck.
May '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
I think there's a suspicion because he looks the guy central casting recommended to play the President, not be the President. And quite frankly, I can't give you an issue that Romney owns. Like many people who run in the primaries he doesn't seem to have an agenda of his own.
Right now it's the ladies that are out front making the noise and rallying the troops. I'm not sure either Palin or Bachmann are the answer but I didn't see Mitt, Huckleberry or anyone else rushing to Wisconsin to back Scott Walker. And they're not helping Kasich in Ohio or Snyder in Michigan, other Republican governors taking the arrows on the front line.
Jul '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
I think the use of the word "bigotry" goes too far. If a candidate chooses to identify himself with some particular religious sect, voters are free to weigh that when they make their decision.
My problem with the LDS is of a more secular nature: their hierarchy, in the process of reaping an enormous number of new converts among Hispanics, have turned a blind eye to illegal immigration. I suspect Mitt would be influenced by his church when it comes to the issue of "comprehensive immigration reform".
Apr '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
I agree with the first paragraph of River's comment, and not at all with the second one. My problem with Romney is that he's just unelectably bland. It's a strategery thing: in the election, of course I'd vote for Romney in a heartbeat over Obama. But if we're talking primaries, I think the GOP can do better. The central issue in the 2012 election is going to be ObamaCare, and Romney is seriously handicapped on this issue with RomneyCare. He didn't help himself at all with his book "No Apologies."
I just wish there were an obvious alternative candidate to rally around. In 2008 I went for McCain over Romney in the primary, but with serious misgivings about it. I'm not sure Romney would have done much better. I fear we're headed for a similarly poor set of options in 2012.
Dec '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
Richard, you seem to have a dog in the fight concerning Mormonism. That could bear negatively on your objectivity where Romney is concerned. I could be wrong, but it is a bit early in the week for my mistake to occur, and I usually try to save it for the wife...lol. From a theological perspective, there are many serious questions regarding the LDS faith. However, I think most voters put some thought into what they're doing and would not allow themselves such blatant bigotry. For most, his faith is too far down the list of negatives to hold weight in the decisions.
Feb '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
I've been quite critical of Romney, but not because of his religion. If anything I regard it as a plus, and I was intensely annoyed at all the endless stupid questions he had to answer about it the last time around.Plus the cheap shots Huckabee took at Romney are some of the reasons why I won't consider him should he run.
I dislike Romney for other reasons.
Aug '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
Richard, they believe in the Book of Mormon that suddenly appeared - as gold plates - and then vanished, with only Joseph Smith seeing them. He wrote it. The Book tells a story that's totally unverifiable by any other party (unlike the Bible). They say the Aztecs are Israelites, and the indians of Mexico are descended from the Israelites; a fact that can be shown as wrong by DNA, and many other proofs.
Jan '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
Flip-flopping is no longer an issue?
Apr '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
River: I don't think we should go playing "Your religion has more magical, unverifiable claims than mine." All religions are pretty heavily invested in this area.
What matters far more here is the question: Does the candidate's religion gibe with America's values? Mormonism clearly passes this test. Islam (for example) is a much, much tougher case, with its conflation of the law and the faith.
Aug '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
River,
Please take your anti-Mormon rantings to some other site that's more germain to religious topics - it doesn't belong on Ricochet.
I could easily refute each one of your ignorant assertions regarding my faith but will refrain to do so on Ricochet as it is not the appropriate place for this discussion.
Jun '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
"What matters far more here is the question: Does the candidate's religion gibe with America's values?"
This is an excellent point. I really don't care too much if a candidate's religion has many stories, or indeed a complete foundation, that I would find completely implausible. It's how that faith would impact the country that concerns me. I have no reason to believe that the modern Mormon faith is at odds with American values.
Edited on Apr 20, 2011 at 3:19pmSep '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
RomneyCare is a problem for me, and he makes it worse by offering such weak explanations of why it shouldn't be a problem. What I see is a well-coiffed Jon Lovitz saying "yeah... Federalism... that's the ticket!"
Mar '11
Re: Misjudging Mitt
Romneycare no longer conveys authority regarding health care issues, it is a poison pill.
I have no idea what that means within the context. As to what bothers me about the Mittster, I have noticed his disturbing affinity for various types of self-promotion as a means of getting elected.
Sep '10
Re: Misjudging Mitt
Gus Marvinson: Romneycare no longer conveys authority regarding health care issues, it is a poison pill.
I have no idea what that means within the context. As to what bothers me about the Mittster, I have noticed his disturbing affinity for various types of self-promotion as a means of getting elected. · Apr 20 at 4:34pm
The original post states:
"In 2008 his work on Massachusetts health care reform was a source of credibility when he discussed the issue of healthcare."
So far the best defense I get from Romeny supporters is some combination of "he is from a Blue state" and "he had to spend the federal money anyway so he tried to do it the best he could".
This is the candidate we want to challenge Obama in a philosophical debate about the role of government in our lives? Seriously?
The only way I vote for him is if the other remaining candidates are Huckabee and Trump.