Mid-East Head-Ache
I just got back from Israel (and Poland) on a Catholic Pilgrimage that made my head spin. Last time I was there I was shooting a music video and was told by many young hipsters that the non-orthodox Jews were mad at the the orthodox Jews because they claimed the Orthodox don't have to work or join the army because the govt. supports them for their value as "pray-ers." They were also mad because since they didn't have to work, they didn't know how burdensome it was on the non-orthodox Jews who have to work on Saturdays to have the bus service cancelled on Saturdays, because the non working orthodox Jews don't want to violate the Sabbath by having busses (that they wouldn't take anyway) running on the Sabbath.
This didn't sit well with the young people I spoke to that had to fight and work.
This time I went there and got an earful of the plight of the often ignored Palestinian Christians who (at least the ones I met) are for the most part more allied with the Muslims than the Israelis. Does anyone ever think about them? I didn't. I knew there was a problem with the Christian population dwindling but my point is this: Even if there was a solution to the Israel / Palestinian problem there would still be these problems, compounded by the fact that the non-working / non-fighting orthodox Jews have a lot of kids and the non-orthodox have very few. The math there presents a problem for the future of course, not unlike Europe's.
What was the Christians' desired solution?
Two separate states, Palestinian / Israeli, with Jerusalem as an International Zone monitored by the United Nations, hope I didn't give you a headache.
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Jul '10
Re: Mid-East Head-Ache
As a cradle Presbyterian, driven out of the Presbyterian Church US by its virulent campaign to delegitimize Israel, a campaign instigated by Palestinian Christians, I do think about them often. Their solution to turn Jerusalem, a Jewish capital for 3,000 years, into an international zone seems absolutely par for the course. As for the UN monitoring, let's just look at the bang up job UNIFIL has done in Lebanon to understand that angle. The situation for Christians in the Middle East, including Iraq, is getting parlous by the day and they need our prayers. As for the Palestinian Christians, I am totally confused by their behaviour.
May '10
Re: Mid-East Head-Ache
Ragnarok is 100% correct.
Also, and pardon my language here, young hipsters in Israel are just as full of crap as they are pretty much every other place. In many ways they are worse in Israel because they imperil their nation's very existence in a way that they can't do in a place as large as the US, as much as they may try to undermine it.
The Orthodox work plenty hard and a great many serve in the military. Also, other than the military and emergency coverage professions like medicine, police, and fire, there really aren't that many people who "must" work on Saturday (same goes for Sunday, if that's your sabbath).
BTW, whether the prayers of the Orthodox in Israel (and elsewhere for that matter) actually serve Israel really depends on whether you believe Israel's return and continued existence is miraculous or not. All depends on your world (or otherworld) view, eh? It's hard not to see the very successful presence of the Jewish people--particularly the Orthodox--in the 21st century, after millennia of persecution (and assimilation), as something of a proof for the existence of God.
Jun '10
Re: Mid-East Head-Ache
Joe Escalante
...What was the Christians' desired solution?
Two separate states, Palestinian / Israeli, with Jerusalem as an International Zone monitored by the United Nations, hope I didn't give you a headache. ·
To put Jerusalem under the control of the UN is a ridiculous solution. If they do that, they may as well just hand it over to Muslim control directly, and cut out the middleman. Israel will never agree to that, because they know who the UN favors. That would be surrender.
Re: Mid-East Head-Ache
Personally, I wouldn't trust the U.N. with the Jersey Shore. And Ragnarok is the new leader in cool screen names.
Edited on Oct 20, 2010 at 1:32pmMay '10
Re: Mid-East Head-Ache
Joe Escalante What was the Christians' desired solution?
Two separate states, Palestinian / Israeli, with Jerusalem as an International Zone monitored by the United Nations, hope I didn't give you a headache.
Hahahahaha... Palestinian Christians have got a leg up on those of us here in the States where sense of humor is concerned!
That, or they're utterly blind to the worthlessness of UN "monitors." Or they want to see the Israelis forced out of Jerusalem, and just aren't willing to say that.