Michele Bachmann Is Offended
As has been noted below, Rick Perry performed well in tonight's debate until the subject of HPV inoculations for school girls came up. The other candidates, sensing that Perry was vulnerable on this topic, piled on. "To have innocent little 12-year old girls be forced to have a government injection through an executive order is just flat out wrong," Michele Bachmann interjected down the stage from Perry. From that point on in the debate, Perry never quite recovered, signaling to his opponents an opening for attack.
One such attack just arrived in my e-mail inbox from Michele Bachmann. Subject line: "I'm Offended"
Dear Fellow Conservative,
I'm offended.
If you watched tonight's Republican debate, you saw Rick Perry defend his decision to mandate a vaccine for young girls through an executive order while he was governor of Texas. As a mother, I have raised three biological daughters and 23 foster daughters, and I believe taking away a parents right to direct the health care of their children is flat out wrong . It’s a violation of liberty and everything you and I stand for.
Tonight, I also questioned why Governor Perry made this executive order. When you look at the facts, the question becomes, is this about life or is this about millions and potentially billions for the drug company?
We cannot forget that in the midst of the executive order, a big drug company made millions of dollars because of this mandate. This drug company's PAC made thousands of dollars in political donations to Governor Perry, and his own former Chief of Staff was working as the lobbyist for this drug company when he issued the mandate. This is flat out wrong.
Governor Perry says if given the option again he would not issue the mandate. However, as President of the United States there are no mulligans; there are no do-overs.
Congresswoman Bachmann is right -- as President of the United States, there are no do-overs. But that's why we prize executive experience in our candidates so much. A humble executive will have known successes, made mistakes, and learned by trial and error. In theory, that's what makes for a better chief executive.
I'm satisfied with Gov. Perry's admission that his executive order to force inoculations was wrong. But I suspect that we haven't heard the last word on this.
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Comments:
Jun '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
"A dangerous vaccine? What nonsense."
Not at all. I encourage you to do some research. You may or may not still choose to have your daughters vaccinated. What any prudent person should do when making these decisions is to weigh the likelihood of infections against the likelihood of side effects. That will be a different answer for different families. But the choice should be yours, and not the government's. It is not a disease that is casually transmitted and should not be handled like measles or small pox where herd immunity comes into play.
I am not anti-vaccine. I am anti-bad or unnecessary vaccines. I am anti-intrusive, unnecessary government intervention. I am not anti-Big Pharm.
I'm an RN. My husband worked for 20 years earning a good living at a huge pharmaceutical company that provided life-saving and life-enhancing products. I don't put Gardasil into that category. If you do, then you are certainly free to have your daughters vaccinated. But don't force it on me or expect my insurance company or the government to pay for it.
Sep '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Paul A. Rahe
liberal jim
Diane Ellis, Ed.:
Marxist? You should cite chapter and verse from his writings on this, and, if you go looking, you will discover that no one in the Marxist camp ever addressed this question. It is a matter of public health and an appropriate sphere for governmental action on the local level. · Sep 13 at 4:25am
Marx clearly thought that the government knows best as apparently you and Perry do in this instance. I said I can understand why a Marxist would make the decision. Not what you implied. If this is a matter of public health can't mandating anything big-brother thinks is good for health be deemed the same? If not how do you draw the line? This is clearly a manifestation of the soft-despotism you are so found of talking about. Parents and individuals are clearly capable of making the decision and should be allowed to do so and live with the consequences. Why should government be involved at any level? Your public health canard appears to me to be a slogan not an argument.
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Jesse Walker wrote an interesting article about the curious *rush* to mandate the vaccine in Texas. Here's a snippet:
Mar '11
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Paul A. Rahe
Marxist? You should cite chapter and verse from his writings on this, and, if you go looking, you will discover that no one in the Marxist camp ever addressed this question. It is a matter of public health and an appropriate sphere for governmental action on the local level. · Sep 13 at 4:25am
If a vaccine against HIV/AIDS is developed, should it be mandatory for all children?
Jun '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Robert E. Lee: I am not against vaccines. I believe they help the majority of people who receive them. However, some people will have a bad reaction no matter how safe the vaccine is. That is why I believe people should be given a choice. When a vaccine is mandatory I believe that any reaction that occurs should be assumed to be caused by the vaccine and paid for by the mandating authority.
· Sep 13 at 5:26am
Robert, I am sorry to hear about your health troubles.
I do want to say just a word about mandatory vaccines. In cases of highly contagious diseases whose mode of transmission is airborne, we face a public health threat and herd immunity keeps the population safe. HPV doesn't fit this category.
If you look at the recommended (or mandated) schedules for vaccination administration it becomes clear that part of the reason for scheduling is science-based. Often a vaccine's efficacy is negatively impacted if not administered as recommended. However, a big part of the scheduling is tied to compliance. Infants are on frequent check-up schedules. Kids need proof of immunization to attend school. A captive audience raises compliance.
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
liberal jim
Paul A. Rahe
liberal jim
Diane Ellis, Ed.:
Marxist? You should cite chapter and verse from his writings on this.· Sep 13 at 4:25am
Marx clearly thought that the government knows best as apparently you and Perry do in this instance. I said I can understand why a Marxist would make the decision. Not what you implied. If this is a matter of public health can't mandating anything big-brother thinks is good for health be deemed the same? If not how do you draw the line? This is clearly a manifestation of the soft-despotism you are so found of talking about. Parents and individuals are clearly capable of making the decision and should be allowed to do so and live with the consequences. Why should government be involved at any level? Your public health canard appears to me to be a slogan not an argument. · Sep 13 at 5:34am
You clearly do not know much about Marx, my friend. And vaccinating against diseases likely to be fatal which young people through no fault of their own are apt to be exposed to is good public policy when done at the state level.
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Basil Fawlty
Paul A. Rahe
Marxist? You should cite chapter and verse from his writings on this, and, if you go looking, you will discover that no one in the Marxist camp ever addressed this question. It is a matter of public health and an appropriate sphere for governmental action on the local level. · Sep 13 at 4:25am
If a vaccine against HIV/AIDS is developed, should it be mandatory for all children? · Sep 13 at 5:47am
If it works and has no dangerous side effects, yes. It would contribute greatly to eliminating a plague.
Oct '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Elizabeth Dunn
I would not- in a million years- compare a viral disease with a sexually-transmitted choice. · Sep 12 at 11:11pm
Doctors used to think this STD threatened only women. Then the men started dying.
It's not always a "choice"...not nearly so, anymore. Don't mean to digress but here's some facts:
"Odds are good that you once had the virus, you have it now, or you will contract it soon. The CDC estimates that half of all sexually active people become HPV positive at some time in their lives. With 6 million new infections each year, HPV is the most widely spread and overexposed STD we've ever known."
"The reason HPV moves around the way it does has to do with its stealth: In 99 percent of cases, the disease is symptom-free. Most people infected with HPV have no idea they have it, who they contracted it from, or that they could be infecting others."
"Cancer researchers have...only recently discovered a...link between the virus and oral cancer."
"HPV is replacing alcohol and smoking as the leading cause of oropharyngeal cancer."
Full story here: http://bit.ly/pTRqah
Oct '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Elizabeth Dunn
Yes- I stand corrected. They are both virally transmitted, but one disease can be avoided if teenagers and their parents choose to act responsibly.
See comment #48.
Sep '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Paul A. Rahe
liberal jim
Paul A. Rahe
liberal jim
Diane Ellis, Ed.:
Marxist? You should cite chapter and verse from his writings on this.· Sep 13 at 4:25am
You clearly do not know much about Marx, my friend. And vaccinating against diseases likely to be fatal which young people through no fault of their own are apt to be exposed to is good public policy when done at the state level. · Sep 13 at 5:52am
I do not have a great deal of knowledge about Marx but would expect most Marxist to support a coerced vaccination program. Perhaps I am wrong about this. I find it difficult to understand why a supporter of limited government would term the the usurpation of parental and/or individual rights when public welfare is not endangered "good public policy." If the public welfare is not endangered no government involvement is needed or desirable. Once again where do you draw your line? When it seems good to a board of college professors? I do not consider myself or any government official more concerned or qualified than a parent. Any expertise needed to make a good decision is readily available.
May '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Put me down with those who think Michele Bachmann is sounding desperate here. But also with those like Basil and liberal Jim and Sticker Shock who see this as a question of government overreach and worrying crony capitalism.
Apr '11
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
These attacks on Perry will abate. Starting with the next debate, primary voters won't want to listen to Bachmann and Santorum whining about HPV vaccines any more. The issue won't die entirely - nor should it - but the vacuum that will be created should give Perry an opportunity to play more offense. In so doing, he needs to dial back the 'look what I did in Texas' message (that, too, will get old) and start talking about principle. His platform is fidelity to the Constitution - the 10th Amendment in particular - and getting the Federal Government monster back in its cage. Focusing on principle and vision will get him a log further than the whole Romney 'Here's why I'm the most qualified for this job' schtick. And in the meantime, he needs to be careful with his public pronouncements lest he should provide Bachmann, Santorum, debate moderators et al with fresh sticks to beat him with.
Edited on September 13, 2011 at 3:53pmFeb '11
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Perry should not have apologized and was quite correct to require the immunizations whether parents wanted it or not. Perry makes far too many dumb statements and doesn't back down from those. He makes the right decision on something that protects the health of children and climbs down from that. He is just showing he is far from being ready for prime time.
Dec '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
It strikes me more as a matter of personal health. If we expand the notion of public health to justify government coercion on this issue, it seems we can justify most anything on those grounds.
May '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Worse than the vaccine issue is the in-state tuition for illegals. I only heard that last half hour of the debate, but I thought that "not the sound of your last name" line--suggesting that those who oppose the initiative are bigoted--was worse than lame.
But that conversation's for another thread.
Aug '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Stephen,
"that shrill small voice", is that yours? Very nicely done.
She is flailing, about to go down. Her critique of Perry on Social Security betrayed her principled truth-teller persona for what it is, a politician's ruse.
I was off her the instant she signed that idiotic preamble-adjacent vow that most decidedly did not misconstrue slavery yet also somehow revealed her as a bold truth teller all the same, at least for a moment, until with dodgy dodge by way of a Clintonion parse she absolved herself of that mantle.
It's all been farce ever since.
Bachmann Schmachmann.
Edited on September 14, 2011 at 5:08amMar '11
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
Paul A. Rahe
Basil Fawlty
Paul A. Rahe
Marxist? You should cite chapter and verse from his writings on this, and, if you go looking, you will discover that no one in the Marxist camp ever addressed this question. It is a matter of public health and an appropriate sphere for governmental action on the local level. · Sep 13 at 4:25am
If a vaccine against HIV/AIDS is developed, should it be mandatory for all children? · Sep 13 at 5:47am
If it works and has no dangerous side effects, yes. It would contribute greatly to eliminating a plague. · Sep 13 at 5:59am
I'm still trying to understand why the government telling us what to do in the medical realm is a good thing, but the government telling us what to do in the economic realm, the education realm, or just about any other realm you care to mention is a bad thing. Is it the presumption that people are just more incompetent about medical matters and need the government to make their medical decisions for them?
Aug '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
So my choices are Perry with an HPV vaccine vs Romney with RomneyCare. One guy says he used the wrong process (Perry - executive order) the other guy says the compulsion (RomneyCare) is in line with the 10th ammendment.
Perry issues the order in Feb 2007 and the Legislature undoes it in May of 2007 - good on Texas.
RomneyCare is ongoing.
Advantage: Perry
Aug '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
First...a mandatory Polio vaccine saved a generation.
Second...mandatory MMR shots prevent the massive spread of illness in our schools.
Third...stopping the spread of disease is in the public interest and local governments have the authority under state constitutions and the Constitution to do things like this.
Fourth...parents can OPT OUT. The power of the individual to make a medical decision is still there. The Texas bill provides and pays for the vaccine for those who cannot afford it.
Aug '10
Re: Michele Bachmann Is Offended
BTW it isn't Progressive or liberal to believe that the local government has these kinds of authority. A conservative can believe that local governments are exactly where this kind of power lies. The Constitution only restricts the powers of Federal government. State governments have their own constitutions, which must only guarantee a "republican" form of government.
It isn't conservative to oppose any and all instances of government exercising power over the individual, it is anarchism.
The fact that one could opt out of the program speaks volumes about how much of an intrusion this actually was.