Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
The mass grave discovered in San Fernando is apparently the "tip of the iceberg." I can't evaluate that statement, but one mass grave is more than enough, especially given that this is 80 miles off the US border.
Now, I actually have no idea what the United States should be doing about this. It is simply impossible for me to follow Mexican politics closely enough really to understand what's happening. But I do recall that our President recently explained the intervention in Libya with these words: "As President, I refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action."
I have a very, very bad feeling about this news. That's not the same as an "informed opinion," of course. I'd welcome thoughts from Ricochet members who have one.
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Oct '10
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
Many of my friends in Mexico have stopped traveling beyond their known safety zone. They will fly from place to place if required, but road travel is more or less avoided. Border crossing, as from El Paso to Juarez is also avoided, mainly because of the roads south. The best analogy I know is Colombia fifteen or so years ago. A battle between a corrupt government and a criminal enterprise.
Meanwhile, the violence continues to spill over the border into Texas and Arizona, and our border agents are, in effect, standing down. My own view is that domestic violence has it's place in the leftist agenda, and far from stopping it, it is being encouraged by the failure to defend. When the Mexican earthquake really hits, the tsunami produced will provide a pretext, not to control the border, but to control Arizonans and Texans.
May '10
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
No informed opinion here, but maybe - just maybe! - this is one more piece of evidence that we should secure our borders. Whatever other policies we follow with regard to Mexico are unlikely to improve the situation for America if our southern border is a big fuzzy gray area.
Nov '10
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
I guess I’d be called a radical if I offered a modest proposal — That Texas and Arizona secede. Between the two, and without the taxes and oppressive regulations the rest of the country imposes on them, they’d soon have a GDP to rival that of the U.S., along with a drug-free immigration policy. No income tax! They’d certainly have full employment from day one. Texas already has the best hospitals and medical research facilities in the world so they’d quickly become the world capital of medical tourism. With the thriving port city of Houston their import/export market would flourish. Maybe not such a radical idea, you think?
Oh yeah, what name? How about Texarkana? Or “The Free Republic of Texas?"
Rick Perry could be the George Washington of the new country.
Edited on Apr 7, 2011 at 5:33amApr '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
Sadly, Claire, one is apparently not enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_homicides_in_Ciudad_Ju%C3%A1rez
This is something that has been going on for a horribly long time in Mexico; something I found so appalling I even wrote a book trying to get some interest in the subject but that interest was nil.
Strategypage.com has been covering this extremely well and, as far as I can tell, the only one interested in the subject to cover it at any great length:
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/2010.aspx
Their archives on the subject go back 5 years on the subject.
Edited on Apr 7, 2011 at 5:38amMar '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
From what I know at talking with people from Mexico or who know people there. Only specific areas are dangerous. Much of the country is relatively safe (for example most of the Baji Peninsula). However, I believe Mexico City is again the Kidnapping capital of the world since Bogotá has gotten better over the past few years. Don’t know how it compares to the Somalia pirates though if one took a sea region and made it a city.
It is starting to look like we will have to have rockets fired into the U.S. from Mexico before we secure our borders.
Edited on Apr 7, 2011 at 5:54amMar '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
You also have the Gunwalker scandal (started under Bush in 2005 and continued by Obama) as well, where the ATF allowed guns into Mexico, at least one of which was used to kill a U.S. border agent last year.
Interesting Mexican take on it here: "Anabel Hernández has made quite the charge: the Sinaloa cartel has bought the Mexican government lock, stock and Calderon. What’s more, the DEA knows about the corruption and plays ball with Calderon to catch other cartels, giving the Sinaloas a pass. Which would account for Calderon’s lack of indignation on the whole Gunwalker deal."
Having lived in southern California, I can say that going to Baja was fairly safe until four or five years ago, when the drug shootings started increasing - heads found in coolers, police shot, bystanders caught in the cross-fire, etc. Then marines from Camp Pendleton were barred from their command from going to Tijuana (always a favorite since the drinking age in Mexico is 18).
Now combined with the drug shootings is human smuggling traffic. I don't know what the answers are - the country's a mess, with corruption and economic disincentives for the middle class.
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
D.B. Little: Sadly, Claire, one is apparently not enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_homicides_in_Ciudad_Ju%C3%A1rez
This is something that has been going on for a horribly long time in Mexico; something I found so appalling I even wrote a book trying to get some interest in the subject but that interest was nil.
Strategypage.com has been covering this extremely well and, as far as I can tell, the only one interested in the subject to cover it at any great length:
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/2010.aspx
Their archives on the subject go back 5 years on the subject. · Apr 7 at 5:34am
Edited on Apr 07 at 05:38 am
What happened to the book? Do you have the synopsis?
Feb '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
Is this a reason to bring our military home from Afghanistan? They will be needed along the Mexican border? Or needed inside Mexico in the near future?
Of course, this is a major reason to stop the war on drugs.
For a feeling about the Mexican potential for violence, read "The Adelita", by Oakley Hall. Fiction written 35 years ago about the 1914 Mexican revolution and its aftermath, it suggests that things can go real bad in Mexico quickly. It is still relevant.
I traveled by bus though much of Mexico in the early 1980s. It felt safe then.
Edited on Apr 7, 2011 at 6:20amJun '10
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
Their customers are addicted to the cocaine. The gang leaders are addicted to the power. Apparently, being above the law is a much bigger rush than the money.
Apr '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
I have it here. It was a fiction book-- in fact I got the idea to do it that way from listening to you and your brother discussing his problems getting his nonficton book on the missionaries in Southeast Asia published on Glenn Reynolds' podcast some time back.
It was mainly about what is going on here, in this country, though.
I only mentioned it because everyone I had read it had to little interest in doing anything about the problem I described-- it was just how those people are, apparently; which sadly is untrue..
Jan '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
I don't have a solution to this either. I think a different angle needs to be at least considered. You all remember this history. During that period of time prior to the US involvement in WWI, Germany had concerns that America would enter the war. They sent Mexico a wire in which they proposed the following deal. If the US looked as if it would move toward war, Mexico was to attack us along the Mexican border. If they did this then Mexico would recieve its lost territories after German had secured a victory. England intercepted that wire and that was one of the tipping points to the US declaring war on Germany.
Might it be possible that we are looking at a replay of that strategy. Are we dealing with an extension of the Middle Eastern conflicts - one that brings the war right to our border with Mexico?
Apr '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
Fieldwork is the name of Mischa's book; I could not remember the title to save my life
I have been meaning to read it but sadly all I have time for is research stuff...
Edited on Apr 7, 2011 at 7:03amMay '10
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
The most remarkable aspect of that article, Claire, is that the slain were not rival gang members but Mexican civilians. Very sad.
Cranky1:
Might it be possible that we are looking at a replay of that strategy. Are we dealing with an extension of the Middle Eastern conflicts - one that brings the war right to our border with Mexico?
That's my main concern. I doubt Hezbollah set up shop in northern Mexico just for the drug money.
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
Steven Zoraster:
I traveled by bus though much of Mexico in the early 1980s. It felt safe then. · Apr 7 at 6:18am
Edited on Apr 07 at 06:20 am
Me too. All of my memories of Mexico are happy, which makes this all the more incredibly sad to contemplate.
Apr '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
My memories of Mexico were good, too. We lived in El Paso for a year and probably went over once a week to shop. It was during the mid-80's things fell apart at least in Juarez. The local crime kingpin knew enough to keep things from getting too out of control; otherwise you would scare off the customers-- mainly servicemen hitting the bars and whorehouses and people like us who used to shop over there. But the gangs there, they were like packs of wild dogs. They would fight over territory; so vicious only the most ruthless would survive, and it was those guys who decided to take over the drug trade. The El Paso police found the old kingpin of Juarez's body in an El Paso trashcan and that was the end of that. They have been fighting amongst themselves like wild animals ever since
Edited on Apr 7, 2011 at 7:54amApr '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
In 2006, the Mexican Government actually had a good idea-- you have no idea what a rarity that is-- and President Calderon started a counterinsurgency in Mexico like we did in Iraq and was so effective in Columbia. A good snapshot of that conflict from Strategypage is here:
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20061227.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20070220.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20080601.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20090216.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20091005.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20100521.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20100613.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20110129.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexico/articles/20110327.aspx
Terribly sorry the list is so long; it's like I said; this has been going on for a while
Feb '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
The problems are multifaceted and interconnected. Mexico has always been and continues to be an oligarchy with a slim middle class. Since the 1970's it has used immigration to the U.S. as a pressure release valve and as a source of money. The money sent back to the country from immigrants is the second source of national income. The ruiling class only cares about maintaining their priveleges and power not economic development. Corruption at every level of society is endemic, from the simple bribe paid to local inspectors/cops/etc. to the highest kickbacks paid to the high level functionaries. The endemic corruption has created a culture that is atrophied and generally apathetic. What I have found in discussing the issues with family and individuals from Mexico is cognitive dissonance, they feel so powerless at the situation but in order to make sense of it they cling to conspiracy theories where the U.S. is really responsible for everything. Many people recognize that the actors in the Mexican government are acting vilely but still consider that to be secondary to the primariry in their minds responsible entitiy, the U.S....
Feb '11
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
It is as if they perceive the U.S. in their conspiracy theories as an all powerful force that if it wanted to stop the current ills of Mexico, all it has to do is call the president and then all will be well with uniconrs and rainbows. Another aspect that is not noticed is that a third of all children born in Mexico are illegitimate and are prone to the same pathologies we see in illegitimate children born in the US but without a more generous welfare safety net. These people are also part of a growing underclass in Mexico primarily based in urban environments and are the prime recruiting pool for cartels. Alcoholism, fractured families and the ills of all types of abuse are prevalent in this group.
Oct '10
Re: Mexican Mass Graves and American Foreign Policy Priorities
the Mexican govt should ask the US to include the drug cartels in the State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations.