Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Jeb Bush was for giving citizenship to illegals before he was against it.
Before he was for it again.
Over at NRO early this morning, I apparently overestimated Jeb Bush's abilities, though not his thirst for amnesty. Yesterday, he made a splash in flacking his new immigration book by coming out against putting illegals on a path to citizenship (which he had long supported). In the book, he called instead for a different sort of amnesty which would give illegals aliens work cards, Social Security accounts, driver's licenses, the ability to travel abroad and return--but not the right to apply for citizenship. This would be like a permanent guest worker visa or a green card lite.
The point of this supposedly less generous form of amnesty, which has been floated by others as well, is to con Republican skeptics into backing an amnesty bill by creating the pretense of compromise. Such an approach would permit GOP House members to say they were sticking it to Obama by voting for something he supposedly opposes.
There's no compromise involved, of course, because the point of the amnesty push is to give illegal aliens legal status so they can stay here legally the rest of their lives -- the nature of that status is just a detail. But the strategy had, and still has, promise. Time swallowed the fairy tale that the proposal isn't amnesty, and acknowledged that Bush's goal in floating the proposal is to "soften the ground for the Party to move to the center on the issue" -- i.e., vote for amnesty. Likewise, the New York Times comically described it as a "middle-ground option".
But then today Jeb blows it by recanting his position in his brand new book, saying "we wrote this last year." In other words, "Last year I thought I had to pretend to support a less generous form of amnesty to dupe my fellow Republicans, but now that the Democrats, my allies on immigration, are in a stronger political position, I can stop pretending."
And people are talking about him for 2016? Give me a break.
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May '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Whatever one thinks of Jeb Bush, his odds in a presidential campaign aren't good.
Nov '12
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
I've been saying for years that the whole illegal-immigrant crisis is a 'heads-I-win-tails-you-lose' proposition for the left. If there's some sort of reform, it will necessarily involve a massive amnesty, and once they get that they can ignore any enforcement or penalties, and set us up for another crisis down the road.
If there is no reform deal, then they get to use the misery of the illegals to their advantage. In either case, they'll always outbid the right on 'compassion for the least of these'.
What really burns me is that the underlying strategy of the left is to redefine the basic concept of citizenship to mean 'one who is a client of the state.'
A question: Can the right gain traction by focusing on 'citizenship' as the real subject of this debate?
Jun '12
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
mis-overestimated . . .
:-)
Aug '11
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
While not arguing for Jeb, I would say the nature of the status is more than just a detail. The difference being the ability to vote. (Thank goodness there is no voter fraud) Liberals want a "path to citizenship" because they want votes.
May '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
I respected H.W., I admired W., but please, please, no more Bushes. No more...
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Sure, but keep in mind that the children of the non-citizen guest workers born in America will be citizens.
Aug '11
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
John Grant: Sure, but keep in mind that the childrin of the non-citizen guest workers born in America will be citizens. · 8 minutes ago
Good point, another thing that should be addressed in actual "immigration reform". I won't be holding my breath....
Aug '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Thank you for showing me once again how narrow minded conservatives can be. We have been fighting the "no amnesty now, no amnesty ever" fight since 2006.
Hmm...other than a spectacular 2010 which dealt entirely with economic and health care issues what has happened?
In 2006, 2008, and 2012 the Democrats used the "racism" of Republicans as a wedge issue and won elections. The Pelosi rise in 2006 is in part due to the Right distancing themselves from Bush's friendly programs to immigrants and our Southern border.
This is why we are losing.
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Keith Bruzelius: mis-overestimated . . .
:-) · 48 minutes ago
Ouch!
Apr '11
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Nathaniel Wright: Thank you for showing me once again how narrow minded conservatives can be. We have been fighting the "no amnesty now, no amnesty ever" fight since 2006.
Hmm...other than a spectacular 2010 which dealt entirely with economic and health care issues what has happened?
In 2006, 2008, and 2012 the Democrats used the "racism" of Republicans as a wedge issue and won elections. The Pelosi rise in 2006 is in part due to the Right distancing themselves from Bush's friendly programs to immigrants and our Southern border.
This is why we are losing. · 13 minutes ago
Clearly, Democrats will stop calling Republicans racists once we pass Amnesty. And clearly, the heavily government-dependent, highly socialistic Hispanics will be so grateful at this new amnesty that they will immediately reverse course and start voting for limited-government conservatives. Why, it's strategic genius!!!
Mar '11
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
JEB. -- a unit of time used to measure how long it takes one to decide not to support Jeb Bush for president: Approx 6.5 milliseconds
Aug '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Ah yes, wmartin. The mockery is much appreciated, as is your wonderful stereotype of Hispanics. You must know so many to have presented such a candid picture of them. Please illuminate me about how they are not at all hard working, struggling, people who wish to achieve the American Dream.
Surely it is the wish of all people migrating here from Mexico and South to become mere wards of the State. Ah, the glorious American Dream. It doesn't entail working 14 hours a day in construction, or turning a food cart into a multi-restaurant mini-empire. No. No. It's all about those Obama Phones and Food Stamps.
That's why they come, sure it is. All those kids in California striving for college and wanting a DREAM ACT, they don't really want an upwardly mobile education. All they really want is abortion and Section 8 housing.
Okay then.
Apr '11
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Nathaniel Wright:
Surely it is the wish of all people migrating here from Mexico and South to become mere wards of the State. Ah, the glorious American Dream. It doesn't entail working 14 hours a day in construction, or turning a food cart into a multi-restaurant mini-empire. No. No. It's all about those Obama Phones and Food Stamps.
All those kids in California striving for college and wanting a DREAM ACT, they don't really want an upwardly mobile education. All they really want is abortion and Section 8 housing.
Okay then. · 37 minutes ago
There is plenty of demographic and polling data on Hispanic's attitudes toward issues that traditionally animate conservatives to show that they will NEVER vote Republican,and that it's ludicrous to expect that they ever will.
I got a real laugh out of your last paragraph. Mexicans are famously low-achieving in education in Mexico; why would they suddenly become academic world beaters here?
I just can't understand the line of thought that leads us to amnesty millions of immigrants who are tremendously hostile to conservatism, and believe that this somehow helps us.
Aug '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Ah yes, the vaunted Mexican education system. It has been renowned for building great scientific minds for generations.
As for how Mexicans perform in the American system...my guess would be that they would perform like anyone else.
Hostile to conservatism? Please. You are more hostile to Mexicans in your language here than I have found the variety of Hispanics I have come into conversation with.
Laugh all you want, but someone on the internet is wrong. And someone needs to think about whether their perceptions are based on real life experience or what they hear in an echo chamber.
Either way, someone on the internet is wrong.
BTW, it's NEVER ludicrous to attempt to convert someone to your side politically. It may be unsuccessful. It may be fruitless. It may even be futile.
Ludicrous?
Never.
Nov '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
My thought too. I thought they were getting a bit too Kennedy-like and had it confirmed when Barbara went on record instructing Sarah Palin to go back to Alaska. Sorry Barbie, we love you but you're not the Queen Mother. Or Politburo chief.
May '11
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
No one despises Obama more than me. I consider him a Marxist communist bent on the destruction of the United States and our Constitution.
But I would consider voting for an Obama third term before I would vote for another Bush. They have destroyed the forward progress made by Reagan. We don't need or deserve one family to control our nation. Though the Bushes were generally, by politician standards, honest men, they honestly believe in the expansion of government.
Hopefully I wouldn't be limited to only two choices.
Please, no more talk of reverting to a Bush.
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Thanks for showing us again how many conservatives ignore facts.
Did you notice that Tea Party candidates like Rubio won in 2010 while opposing amnesty? Did you notice that McCain did very badly among Hispanics despite promoting amnesty? Did you notice that Republicans lost Hispanic votes after the 1986 amnesty? Did you notice that all the polling data indicates Hispanics (for instance) have very little interest in amnesty in relation to how they vote?
Golly, if Democrats say you are racist you better drop your argument on whatever the issue of the day is. That is a winning strategy.
Nathaniel Wright: Thank you for showing me once again how narrow minded conservatives can be. We have been fighting the "no amnesty now, no amnesty ever" fight since 2006.
Hmm...other than a spectacular 2010 which dealt entirely with economic and health care issues what has happened?
In 2006, 2008, and 2012 the Democrats used the "racism" of Republicans as a wedge issue and won elections. The Pelosi rise in 2006 is in part due to the Right distancing themselves from Bush's friendly programs to immigrants and our Southern border.
This is why we are losing. · 12 hours ago
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Your aversion to facts is showing itself again. Why don't you look at the data on how for instance Mexican immigrants and their descendants perform in the American educational system? Better to accuse your opponents of denying realities based on what you "guess" I suppose.
You should change your avatar. Leo Strauss was a man interested in genuine knowledge; he didn't care to repeat conventional wisdom as if it was obvious truth.
Nathaniel Wright: Ah yes, the vaunted Mexican education system. It has been renowned for building great scientific minds for generations.
As for how Mexicans perform in the American system...my guess would be that they would perform like anyone else.
. . . .
Laugh all you want, but someone on the internet is wrong. And someone needs to think about whether their perceptions are based on real life experience or what they hear in an echo chamber.
Either way, someone on the internet is wrong.
BTW, it's NEVER ludicrous to attempt to convert someone to your side politically. It may be unsuccessful. It may be fruitless. It may even be futile.
Ludicrous?
Never. · 9 hours ago
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Nathaniel Wright: Ah yes, the vaunted Mexican education system. It has been renowned for building great scientific minds for generations.
As for how Mexicans perform in the American system...my guess would be that they would perform like anyone else.
· 9 hours ago
I will do the work that Nathaniel will not do. It took me under 1 minute to locate this data. It seems preferable to relying on guesses on academic achievement among Mexican-Americans when arguing about immigration policy.
45% of non-Mexican Americans have a post-high school degree.
9.6% of 4th generation Mexican-Americans have a post-high school degree.
It seems to me this is relevant when arguing that anyone coming to the country will do just as well as anyone else when put through our educational process.
Aug '10
Re: Maybe He's Not the Smarter Bush Brother
Did you notice that Bush had a rise in Hispanic votes? (45 percent in re-election)
Did you notice that Rubio now wants something similar to Jeb's solution?
Do you think that conservatives targeting the Mexican American community might change their post-high school degree rate?
My argument isn't for "amnesty" simply, it is for aggressively engaging with the community of all Hispanics in order to demonstrate to them the folly of liberalism.
I'll admit that I am relying on family and the students that I work with -- which is not generalizable -- but then again it is a community which is being actively engaged by a conservative.
The data clearly show, as you have pointed out John Grant, that Hispanics do not equate their vote with Amnesty. I'm not arguing for amnesty. I'm arguing for actively engaging the community. Going door to door. Doing town halls. Making the hard sell.
Democrats have sold the Hispanic community on the fact that conservatives are racist. They are using immigration reform as a way to continue this trend. Please, go to Hispanic communities and present conservative ideas to them and at minimum ignore amnesty conversations.