Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
We all know the tropes about stoners - but now there's evidence that smoking weed actually does permanent damage to your brain. Indeed, it has now been officially noted that getting loaded on the Acapulco Gold causes this: “Persistent users” who started as teenagers suffered a drop of eight IQ points at the age of 38, compared to when they were 13."
While that might not seem like much, for most people this represents the difference between being average and being subnormal. So, if you grew up around spleef-jockies and got the strange impression that they were off by just a notch... you may have been right!
Having never touched a leaf of the bud in my life -- and being mocked by friends and associates as a "square," a "rube," or a "narc" -- I feel justified in my long-held position that I couldn't afford to give up any of the few brain cells that I had to rub together for the sake of Mary Jane.
If you're libertarian about this sort of thing on the premise that "it's no worse than booze," does your position change even slightly given the evidence that pot actually does permanent damage to your brain, especially if you use it when you're young?
Editor's Note: Image of marijuana courtesy of Shutterstock
- Comment (80)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (8)
Comments:
Mar '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Chris Campion
Super Nurse
Majestyk
These are the same arguments made in college dorms...
And thus the perfect discussion topic for Ricochet.
Edited on August 29, 2012 at 4:41amNov '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
I'm a oenophile, in possession of many lovely bottles.
Yet if I were founding a new nation from scratch, I might prohibit alcohol because alcohol is the drug that causes the greatest harm in our society.
Yes, alcohol can be used properly with good effects, but many do not use it thusly, and their misuse causes great harm.
Exactly the same is true of pot.
As prohibition demonstrated, once a drug is legal and commonly consumed, never again can it be effectively outlawed. We are stuck with legal alcohol. But pot use has never been common and legal. To legalize pot would be a very risky experiment. If legal pot turned out to have unexpected horrible social effects, we could not re-criminalize it. We should think carefully before legalizing pot.
I don't know whether pot abuse would be less harmful to society than alcohol abuse.
But even if pot were less harmful than alcohol, that is not a sensible argument for legalization: If lying is worse than gluttony, is it sensible to argue that all liars should take up gluttony?
Precisely because we know legal alcohol is so harmful, we should hesitate to legalize pot.
May '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
I understand that anecdotal statements in the face of such hard science is hardly going to stand against the tide, BUT...
In my reality, I work with and am surrounded by extremely intelligent and successful people. White collar business owners, movers and shakers, those types. Every single one rocks the ganja. Most have been lighting up since college or before. The stoner myth is exactly that: a myth. Find me a dummy and I'll find you a cause. Find a successful suburbanite, you cry paradox. No.
In contrast, in my reality, I have watched alcohol tear people to shreds. It's ugly. Much uglier than some burn-out hitting the bong at 2AM with a pile of Twinkies watching conspiracy theories on YouTube.
Perhaps I'm living in some kind of bubble. Perhaps I'm bias, I'm skewed. Fair enough. What I do know is that we make choices to affect our minds every day. We eat McD's, we smoke, we drink, we toke, we take pills, we take anti-this, anti-that, we work out, we diet, we pray, we hope and we dream. (cont.)
Apr '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
From the article: "“Adolescent-onset cannabis users, but not adult-onset cannabis users, showed marked IQ decline from childhood to adulthood"
So I think it's safe to say that we should not allow children to smoke marijuana (or tobacco, for that matter).
But if your concern is a lowering of IQ, then you've made a reasonable case that there's no reason to prohibit marijuana use by adults.
Disclaimer: I'm always a bit skeptical of newspaper reports that summarize scientific papers. In my own field they are almost always wrong in some important aspect, and I don't doubt the same holds true for areas in which I'm not an expert.
May '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
All of these things affect our mind. They affect our short-term and our long-term. They affect our day, our year and our life. It's all mind-altering.
I fear the more we debate what we can choose to do, the more we are in danger of losing any choice at all. Perhaps the gift of the failed war on drugs for many is that as long as drugs are the focus they'll leave your "bad thing" alone. Then they'll have to find a new monster to run out of town. How strongly will you support prohibition when they come for something that really matters to you?
Oct '10
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
I think it was Daniel Tosh who said, "I think we should legalize weed just so that stoners have nothing to talk about."
Jan '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
From the Telegraph article:
I would be extremely curious see the the reults of a similar study tracking the IQs over time of people who consumed equivalent amounts of alcohol, at a similar frequency, and from such an early age.
Oct '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
I believe that dope-smoking is dumb, and if this study is to be believed, it makes the user even dumber.That said, of course it should be legal for adults. Where is the authority to make it illegal? If people can't be allowed to ingest what they choose, what is beyond the control of the government?
Dec '10
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
What a fantastic point. Lets keep marijuana illegal because that has done a super-duper job of keeping people from using it.
In fact, I think we should do some thorough studies and then imprison anybody, who engages in any activity that results in comparable self harm.
At the low low cost of $50,000 per person, per year, wouldn't this country be so much better if we simply imprisoned all those people who made poor decisions affecting their own well being?
Jan '12
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
For more data go to
drugfreeworld.com
Jan '12
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Sorry
drugfreeworld.org
Dec '10
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Mr. Bildo: All of these things affect our mind. They affect our short-term and our long-term. They affect our day, our year and our life. It's all mind-altering.
I fear the more we debate what we can choose to do, the more we are in danger of losing any choice at all. Perhaps the gift of the failed war on drugs for many is that as long as drugs are the focus they'll leave your "bad thing" alone. Then they'll have to find a new monster to run out of town. How strongly will you support prohibition when they come for something that really matters to you? · 9 hours ago
In NYC they have already found some other bad thing.
May '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Beasley:
At the low low cost of $50,000 per person, per year, wouldn't this country be so much better if we simply imprisoned all those people who made poor decisions affecting their own well being? · 2 hours ago
If we started with the President, maybe so.
Aug '10
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Here in this post, woven amongst the truly hilarious musings like Mel Foil's (Thanks, btw, for making me spew coffee), are an engaging set of civil, thoughtful observations and arguments on both sides of the issue. Where else am I gonna get this kind of entertainment for three bucks a month? I love Ricochet.
Sep '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
People have already hit this point, but I feel compelled to restate. Abuse of alcohol also causes permanent damage to the brain. I demand you show the intellectual consistency to also call for the banning of alcohol on these grounds. There is no practical difference in the abuse of either substance.
I have never smoked pot in my life, but I can't pretend that I don't know who people who have, and did it only occasionally and lead fully productive lives.
That some will abuse something cannot be valid grounds for a universal ban in a free society, as nearly every conservative acknowledges on the issue of gun control.
If the government can tell me I can't use something because it's bad for my health, why can't it tell me I can't eat cheese cake and ice cream on the same grounds?
You can't save people from themselves. Many people choose stupidity simply by failing to educate themselves throughout adulthood. Why should we take government action when they choose stupidity by way of pot?
Jul '12
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Frank Soto: Abuse of alcohol also causes permanent damage to the brain. I demand you show the intellectual consistency to also call for the banning of alcohol on these grounds.That some will abuse something cannot be valid grounds for a universal ban in a free society, as nearly every conservative acknowledges on the issue of gun control.
You can't save people from themselves. Many people choose stupidity simply by failing to educate themselves throughout adulthood. Why should we take government action when they choose stupidity by way of pot? · 29 minutes ago
Merely complaining that alcohol is equally rotten is insufficient - your solution to the problems (that I will readily admit exist) that we have with intoxicants is, to what - make MORE of them legal? We accept the problems that exist with booze now as a consequence of a free society, but apparently a sufficient quantity of people in this country have decided that pot is a bridge too far such as to make it illegal.
And to your demand for "intellectual consistency" I say this: Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
Dec '10
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
"And to your demand for "intellectual consistency" I say this: Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds"
Yabba dabba doo
Where did people get the idea that a quote constitutes logic
Aug '10
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
"Marijuana use costs IQ points"--definitively--and it has been "officially noted" (whatever that means)? Er, no.
I am so weary of the press, and then the public, appealing to the authority of individual studies and asserting definitive conclusions therefrom.
Let's restate it accurately: A single study suggests that marijuana use reduces IQ and causes attention and memory problems. It's an interesting conclusion, worthy of further study. No more, no less.
If I were to look at the details of the study, I'm sure that I could identify a number of problems with it. In fact, the Telegraph article mentions one: "[E]ach [subject] nominated a close friend or family member, who was asked about attention and memory problems." Therefore, third parties were asked to give their opinions on the quality of the subjects' attention and memory prior to and after their periods of marijuana use. My, what a rigorously scientific method of measurement!
Also, there could be explanations for the measured IQ differences, other than the direct effects of marijuana. That's what follow-up studies are good for: Testing and re-testing hypotheses.
So, let's not jump to con... conc.... Oh, look, a squirrel!
Edited on August 29, 2012 at 6:25pmJul '12
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
Majestyk
We accept the problems that exist with booze now as a consequence of a free society, but apparently a sufficient quantity of people in this country have decided that pot is a bridge too far such as to make it illegal.
The problem comes when a sufficiently large number of people do not choose to obey a law.
The practical ancient Roman response was: you don't make laws like that. They don't work. Worse, persistence harms respect for all law. A sad, sorry outcome, since our respect is all the law really has going for it.
Dec '11
Re: Marijuana Costs IQ Points ... Still Want to Legalize It?
I would've guessed that smoking a ton of grass starting at age 13 straight through the age of 38 would negatively affect your intelligence before I read about this study. So to answer your post's title question: yes, Nanny Majestyk, I do.