Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Hello, fellow readers of Ricochet,
I've been lurking around the edges for some time, reading all the posts and listening to the Ricochet podcasts, but this is my first post!
I'm a conservative living in Brooklyn, NY, and I work in Manhattan. As a result, everyone I know is a liberal (almost. To be fair, I used to be liberal, too. What happened? That's another post, perhaps.) Especially on Facebook. There are some friends that I know I can have a political discussion with on Facebook, and others that I try to avoid getting into it with. Sometimes, it's really just not worth it.
This afternoon one of my Facebook friends, who is an actual friend in real life, posted a link to this:
I really wanted to reply to my friend, "Reagan eliminated loopholes for millionaires while reducing the top marginal rate from 90% to 28%! Obama wants to raise taxes on everyone making more than $250,000."
But I thought better of it. I'm not sure she knows exactly how conservative I am, and she is the one, after all, who told me about the wonderful restaurant she and her husband went to last year, while they were in Italy, the one where the chef sang and there was a giant portrait of Mao on the wall (this was specifically one of the reasons it was a wonderful restaurant). She's not a communist, of course. But let's just say she doesn't exactly appreciate Reagan the way I do.
Last year, when a (now former) friend in real life posted a New Yorker article about the Ground Zero Mosque, I did chime in. He ended up strongly implying that I was a bigot and that I was harmful to the country. Then he defriended me and I haven't spoken to him since, even though we live only eight blocks from each other.
So I didn't write anything in reply to my friend about Reagan. She and her husband were guests at our wedding (there were only 20 in attendance). I don't think she would have the same reaction as my other friend, but I don't want to ruffle her feathers, either.
The former friend who called me a bigot helpfully explained to my wife in an email that there were certain views that made people "undesirable" as friends for him. I find this strange. I didn't find it hard being his friend, looking after his sick cat for 10 days (which involved administering medication twice daily in both liquid and pill form) while he was on a family vacation, just because he had different politics than me. Actually it was pretty great, he had cable and a big flat screen (we have neither) so I watched a lot of Fox in his house while playing with his cat. (And to be fair, he looked after our cats when we were away too. Other than the part about him calling me a bigot an excommunicating us from his life, he was a nice guy...)
How do you cope with friends who don't share political views with you?
With kindest regards,
Albert
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Comments:
Aug '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I've had friends over the years who didn't share my political views. For the most part, we simply agreed to have a running gag about my politics, without getting into the nitty-gritty, and then move on to other things.
There are other things in life besides politics, you know.
Oct '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Tom Paine:
There are other things in life besides politics, you know. ยท Oct 10 at 3:24pm
Exactly! Like cats! And, ok, children and stuff. I mean, ok, fine, I'm a junkie for politics. I even pay money for Ricochet;-). But if I don't mind if someone's liberal, why do their heads explode when they find out I'm conservative? Part of it has to be that I live in NYC. Everyone is liberal in NYC. Except those bastards on Wall Street, apparently. Oh, wait, they give all their money to Obama.
May '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I will generally say "I disagree." If they ask why, I ask if they TRULY want to hear the other side, and can they do it without interrupting. I stop at the first interruption. But most of them don't REALLY want to hear the other side. They are much too invested in being right. Facts are inconvenient. On Facebook I once posted something remotely controversial. Never again.
Feb '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I live in Cambridge and I'm in grad school, so pretty much all of my friends are way to my left. I cope by not bringing it up, and if someone starts up a political conversation, then my response depends on who it is. If it's one of my better friends who knows my politics, I usually exaggerate my position as a joke. There's no better way to stop a hectoring lecture than by coming out for a 0% tax on the rich and 90% tax on the poor. Or supporting the annexing of the entire middle east to give to Israel.
Aug '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
The only people I know who have ended friendships over politics are left-leaners. (That is, they so disagreed with a conservative friend's politics that they cut off their friendship.) I don't know a single conservative who ever did such a thing or would do such a thing.
I wonder if there's something to that.
Sep '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I agree with what both Obama and Reagan said and I imagine you and your friend does also. The problem is that neither the present tax code nor Obama's proposal does what their talking about. If I were you when I decided to talk politics I would ask a lot of thought provoking questions and avoid conservative talking points, They are usually as inaccurate as the liberal talking points and have already been heard by the person your talking with.
May '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I would have more friends if I would listen more and talk less about politics. My wife points this out to me quite often. As we were headed to the King Street Grille the other day to meet with Rob and other Ricoteers, she said,"Do not try to be clever and all-knowing." She knows me too well.
Edited on October 11, 2011 at 3:17amNov '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Albert, I live in northwest Washington. I too am surrounded by liberals. I feel your pain. Don't shy away. Prove them wrong, not about the issues, but about their idea that all conservatives are idiots.
Nov '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
PS - A friend who judges you unworthy because of your politics is no friend at all. Bet he is tolerant!
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I am blessed with many friends and they come from all across the political spectrum. I've long noticed that liberals have the most trouble with disagreement but I also understand why. Unlike those of us with conservative or libertarian views, they didn't go through high school and college having their beliefs challenged. They don't turn on the television or the nightly news and disagree with the mores that are being pushed. So when they do encounter dissent, it's very hard for them to deal with. I'm almost the opposite -- more surprised when I find someone agrees with me then when they don't.
And even though I attended the University of Colorado and live in D.C., I think New York is the worst. One of my best friends is a conservative there and the stories she tells me are almost difficult to believe. People just turning around and walking away when she, say, cops to being Republican. I mean, really.
Dec '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
It's kind of like marriage, you can either be right or be happy.
More seriously, liberal jim has the right method. Ask questions. Go Socratic. Let them explain their positions to the point that they don't make sense any more. Feign ignorance and let them teach until they have a personal Copernican revolution. I have a couple of friends from high school who went left, but we can still converse even over politics because I let them explain how stupid their positions are rather than trying to explain it to them.
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I'm in the entertainment industry and I'm bombarded with lefty spew daily. And it's worse than friends...it's people who employ me. Sometimes I just can't open my big fat mouth. It wouldn't change anything except add another person (me) to the unemployment statistics.
What worked for me is that I never proclaim I'm a conservative. It shuts libs down. What I have found effective is that if I simply confront a wrong headed opinion with a fact. i.e. "but Obama shut down a working voucher system that was educating poor blacks in D.C. because of his allegiance to the teachers union." Or "according to the government's own statistics whenever the tax rate goes down, revenues go up." I find more often than not, a liberal will actually start being open to my position. (Because conservatism makes sense.) I also often argue a point by claiming to play devil's adovocate.
As for facebook, I just don't get into it. There's no room for nuance, or humor, and for most libs their politics are their religion. My real friends who are liberal, we just tease each other.
Aug '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
I just listened about this on a radio program. In short, this video is selectively edited and takes Reagan's speech completely out of context. Watch the entire thing and note that he is calling for closing unfair loopholes not raising taxes on the rich. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1rhgjG0zyc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Feb '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
It is my nature to say that if you don't want to be my friend because of my politics, then good riddance.
But I am a genealogist - and more important I am heavily into the research of all my families and those of my wife's, including a single-surname project that spreads me well beyond my documentable family. So I cannot afford to have people cut me off.
It is difficult because I don't like keeping my opinions to myself and because my photograph appears on all my comments everywhere, including places like the Jerusalem Post talkbacks.
On the other hand, I have no problem rubbing the faces of my Baltimore relatives in the obvious superiority of the Steelers.
Feb '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Arthur,
Welcome to Ricochet! As a student at NYU Law living in Greenwich Village I too am surrounded by liberals. Speaking about much weightier matters, Jesus Christ offers profitable advice for dealing with inveterate liberals: don't cast your pearls before swine.
Jun '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
DrewInWisconsin: The only people I know who have ended friendships over politics are left-leaners. (That is, they so disagreed with a conservative friend's politics that they cut off their friendship.) I don't know a single conservative who ever did such a thing or would do such a thing.
I wonder if there's something to that. ยท Oct 10 at 5:20pm
There is something to it. I believe it is the fear of ostracism - which to the vestigal tribal (liberal) mind is the same as the fear of death. Your former friend simply feared the reproach of the rest of the tribe had he continued to associate with you. That, and the fact they allow themselves a righteous high when they prove to themselves that they actually are morally superior to someone. Don't worry about it Albert. You could have been dropped for eating the wrong thing, liking the wrong song or painting, laughing at the wrong joke. Taking care of such a friendship is a tedious chore we do in the hope that they will come around some day.
Nov '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Wait--you're saying you think that's an extreme position?
(kidding).
Jul '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
A lot of excellent comments here. My two cents: 1) I have one friend who is painfully liberal AND woefully uneducated when it comes to reality. When we talk politics I tend to find ways to accentuate the similarities between our two philosophies and then explain why the conservative solution is better. EX: Both Liberals and Conservatives want to help the needy; Liberals want massive inefficient government to do the work, I want small hyper-efficient charities to do it. Believe it or not, at 24 he'd never thought about it like that before. 2) With everyone else in my life, I run head long into beating them over the head with conservative facts. Any person who cannot face facts, deal with reality, and/or cope with how things really are is not someone I want to be friends with anyway. Liberals never do seem to make the distinction between disagreement and bigotry/hatred/etc. A friend should take you as you are and accept you 'warts and all'. In the case of your friend OP, I would say you are probably better off without that judgmental person in your life.
Apr '11
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Isn't the answer and I say this sincerely :
that conservatives believe liberals are at best misguided, silly,ill-informed - at worst stupid. and liberals believe conservatives are EVIL?
Plus as a "convert" (like you) I look back on my liberal past with amused contempt. So I am pretty tolerant of the views. They haven't gone through that phase, so you are more alien to them.
Nov '10
Re: Liberals, Reagan, Friends
Actually, the worst story I heard was from Minnesota. It was from James Lileks, on a podcast, who talked about people refusing to allow their children to be friends with his daughter because of his politics. I think that is absolutely unconscionable.