Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
I'm too cheap to buy the whole article -- it's $32, from Nature.com -- but I may, eventually, change my mind. Here's the synopsis:
Tumultuous applause can transform itself into waves of synchronized clapping.
An audience expresses appreciation for a good performance by the strength and nature of its applause. The thunder of applause at the start often turns quite suddenly into synchronized clapping, and this synchronization can disappear and reappear several times during the applause. The phenomenon is a delightful expression of social self-organization that provides an example on a human scale of the synchronization processes that occur in numerous natural systems, ranging from flashing Asian fireflies to oscillating chemical reactions1, 2, 3. Here we explain the dynamics of this rhythmic applause.
I find it a bit creepy when this happens. I guess some might find it "delightful," but it always seems somehow like it's morphed from applause to....some kind of alarming demonstration. In fact, often, I do my best to break it up by clapping off-beat, just to keep the whole thing from developing a Nuremberg Rally kind of vibe.
I guess that's what makes me a conservative. I think applause -- like the economy, like labor, like a community -- is more effective and meaningful when it's not organized.
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Jun '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Or how about when the cessation of clapping is organized? As when audiences listening to Stalin were trained to stop applauding Uncle Joe by the sound of a ringing bell as shown in this video because everyone was deathly afraid of being the first to stop clapping. I think the idea may have come from Comrade Pavlov.
If we see this instituted with our current President we'll know we're in deep trouble.
Oct '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
As an art form, it is to be observed and pondered for the implications. The bleed over is disturbing as it attempts to squelch individuality. Never could carry a beat anyway...
Edited on Aug 16, 2011 at 9:24pmMar '11
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Rob, would you call this then the Nuremberg effect then? I've seen it in other manifestations too.
There's this group at my church who give standing ovations for the most trifling things like when the choir & orchestra do some song they really like or some really popular praise song gets belted out (they also do that arms-in-the-air waving thing).
Pretty soon the rest of the congregation gets shamed into standing too, even us non-singers in the waaaay back...
But I've stopped standing....
I'm not the only one who's stopped either.
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
skipsul: There's this group at my church who give standing ovations for the most trifling things like when the choir & orchestra do some song they really like or some really popular praise song gets belted out (they also do that arms-in-the-air waving thing).
Pretty soon the rest of the congregation gets shamed into standing too, even us non-singers in the waaaay back...
But I've stopped standing....
I'm not the only one who's stopped either. · Aug 16 at 9:34pm
I made a ridiculous decision a decade or so ago that I would not give more than 100 standing ovations in my lifetime.
I don't keep count, but I have managed to cut out about 95% of the standing ovations others give. I may clap vigorously, but unless you're Prince, Margaret Thatcher or the ghost of Martin Luther, chances are you are not getting a standing O from me.
Jun '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Brian Watt: Or how about when the cessation of clapping is organized? As when audiences listening to Stalin were trained to stop applauding Uncle Joe by the sound of a ringing bell as shown in this video because everyone was deathly afraid of being the first to stop clapping. I think the idea may have come from Comrade Pavlov.
If we see this instituted with our current President we'll know we're in deep trouble. · Aug 16 at 9:06pm
Now that, Brian, is truly creepy.
Mar '11
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Cas Balicki
If we see this instituted with our current President we'll know we're in deep trouble. · Aug 16 at 9:06pm
Now that, Brian, is truly creepy. · Aug 16 at 9:47pm
"Barrack Hussein Obama mmm. mmm. mmm"
Dude, we're already there.
Oct '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
skipsul: There's this group at my church who give standing ovations for the most trifling things like when the choir & orchestra do some song they really like or some really popular praise song gets belted out (they also do that arms-in-the-air waving thing).
Pretty soon the rest of the congregation gets shamed into standing too, even us non-singers in the waaaay back...
But I've stopped standing....
I'm not the only one who's stopped either. · Aug 16 at 9:34pm
I made a ridiculous decision a decade or so ago that I would not give more than 100 standing ovations in my lifetime.
I don't keep count, but I have managed to cut out about 95% of the standing ovations others give. I may clap vigorously, but unless you're Prince, Margaret Thatcher or the ghost of Martin Luther, chances are you are not getting a standing O from me. · Aug 16 at 9:40pm
Does remind one of attending some rather enthusiastic church services in the past.
Truth be told the exit doors were locked lest a member of the flock was compelled to leave....
Jun '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Cas Balicki
Brian Watt: Or how about when the cessation of clapping is organized? As when audiences listening to Stalin were trained to stop applauding Uncle Joe by the sound of a ringing bell as shown in this video because everyone was deathly afraid of being the first to stop clapping. I think the idea may have come from Comrade Pavlov.
If we see this instituted with our current President we'll know we're in deep trouble. · Aug 16 at 9:06pm
Now that, Brian, is truly creepy. · Aug 16 at 9:47pm
One wonders how many salivated when they stopped clapping.
Jun '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
skipsul
Cas Balicki
If we see this instituted with our current President we'll know we're in deep trouble. · Aug 16 at 9:06pm
Now that, Brian, is truly creepy. · Aug 16 at 9:47pm
"Barrack Hussein Obama mmm. mmm. mmm"
Dude, we're already there. · Aug 16 at 9:50pm
You may have a point. If Obama gets re-elected then we might anticipate elaborate stage productions in elementary schools showing evil, bloated capitalists in top hats and tails being bayonetted by proud children wearing berets with the "O" symbol prominently stitched on them. And if Mollie is in the audience she won't have a choice whether to sit out the standing ovation.
May '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
skipsul: Rob, would you call this then the Nuremberg effect then? I've seen it in other manifestations too.
There's this group at my church who give standing ovations for the most trifling things like when the choir & orchestra do some song they really like or some really popular praise song gets belted out (they also do that arms-in-the-air waving thing).
Pretty soon the rest of the congregation gets shamed into standing too, even us non-singers in the waaaay back...
But I've stopped standing....
I'm not the only one who's stopped either. · Aug 16 at 9:34pm
Being a Catholic from the stoic upper Midwest, it makes me wince when people clap at church for any reason. Here in California, they clap at the end of every mass. It's so weird.
Sep '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Darn it, now I need to look up this article. Feelings of creepiness aside, this kind of spontaneous synchronization--in animals and people--is fascinating.
Back in the 1700's an Englishman who had traveled in SE Asia reported seeing fireflies flashing in unison on the banks of a river in Thailand. No one in England believed him. I think it was a few centuries later before other Westerners confirmed his observation. It wasn't until the 1990s that two mathematicians (I think at NYU) were able to prove that these fireflies--modeled as ensembles of coupled oscillators--should converge to synchrony essentially 100% of the time. It was a hard problem.
OK, I'll stop now.
Nov '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
I am not as wary of the phenomenon as you Rob. I think the key word here is "spontaneous".
If each individual in a bunch of people appreciates a performance, and each individual expresses their appreciation through clapping, then the emergence of unplanned synchrony between claps need not be a collectivist (though it is a certainly a collective) phenomenon. Indeed, it would be the very antithesis of a collectivist phenomenon, precisely in virtue of being spontaneous and unplanned. In contrast, the Stalinesque imposition of planned synchrony in applause (at least, when to stop and start) is repulsively collectivist. One needs to distinguish the autonomous and harmonious coordination of individuals, from the heteronomous and conflict-ridden suppression of individuals.
(And yes, there is an analogy here to to socialist and capitalist economic schemes!)
Edited on Aug 17, 2011 at 2:22amMay '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Aodhan: I am not as wary of the phenomenon as you Rob. I think the key word here is "spontaneous".
If each individual in a bunch of people appreciates a performance, and each individual then expresses their appreciation through clapping, then the emergence of unplanned synchrony between claps need not be a collectivist (though it is a certainly a collective) phenomenon. Indeed, it would be the very antithesis of a collectivist phenomenon, precisely in virtue of being spontaneous and unplanned.
If I may quote Wikipedia:
Not bad company.
By the way, what is the sound of one invisible hand clapping?
Edited on Aug 17, 2011 at 1:39amNov '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
"By the way, what is the sound of one invisible hand clapping?"
Excellent!
Sounds like a final exam question for Advanced Guru Studies.
Jun '10
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Mark Wilson
If I may quote Wikipedia:
Not bad company.
By the way, what is the sound of one invisible hand clapping? · Aug 17 at 1:36am
Edited on Aug 17 at 01:39 am
See also Hayek's The Theory of Complex Phenomena here that I touched on in a recent posting here where (in the embedded video) Hayek makes a passing reference to Scottish Enlightenment philosopher David Hume.
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
I've always wondered why a crowd was louder than its loudest participant. I suppose sound stacks.
As for the clapping and synchronizing, It appears to violate the second law of thermodynamics related to entropy - which of course means there is a God.
On a similar note, check out these metronomes which synch themselves:
Edited on Aug 17, 2011 at 5:12amFeb '11
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Rob,
Just sent you copy of article via info@ricochet.com with header Article for Rob Long.
Feb '11
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Rob Long
In fact, often, I do my best to break it up by clapping off-beat, just to keep the whole thing from developing a Nuremberg Rally kind of vibe.
I'm afraid I've been guilty of the same thing. As you say, there's something creepy about it.
I used to be an avid opera, ballet and chamber music attendee. What often struck me was how frequently the clapping was inappropriate. No performance was too awful to preclude hysterical clapping from some of the audience. A ghastly performance from a star fifteen years beyond when he should have gracefully retired (Pavarotti, Scotto, Nureyev for example) would draw applause appropriate only for the greatest moment in performance history. At a dramatic pause, hapless souls inevitably broke the mood by applauding as though the rapture had arrived. Then there were the types who had to be FIRST, who trampled the ending or jumped up and applauded and whooped at the false ending, only to have to sit down in embarrassment. Much of this was, and probably still is, maudlin sentimentality or simple ignorance. At least the people were attending. It was better than an empty concert hall. I think.
Edited on Aug 17, 2011 at 5:52amFeb '11
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Rob Long
I find it a bit creepy when this happens. I guess some might find it "delightful," but it always seems somehow like it's morphed from applause to....some kind of alarming demonstration. In fact, often, I do my best to break it up by clapping off-beat, just to keep the whole thing from developing a Nuremberg Rally kind of vibe.
I guess that's what makes me a conservative. I think applause -- like the economy, like labor, like a community -- is more effective and meaningful when it's not organized. ·
Rob, we're conservatives, not hermits or anarchists. A community or group in spontaneous harmony is delightful; relish the experience when it occurs because it's infrequent and transitory. Of course it won't last because we all have our own unique aims, along with entropy and all that. I fail to see how it's conservative, though, to intentionally disrupt a community just because an individual is creeped out by it. Don't be such a buzzkill.
Undeserved applause or authoritarianally ordered applause are completely different.
Edited on Aug 17, 2011 at 6:15amApr '11
Re: Let's Give Them All a Big Hand
Don't waste your money Rob. If you want to read any Nature article just post the Issue Volume and Page Number of the Article or its Title and I can get it for you for free. Though I'm not sure if I can post whole PDFs on this site? I can at least e-mail it too you.