Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Everything wrong with the world is America's fault, or at least this is according to Niccolo Caldararo, an anthropology professor at San Francisco State University and blogger at the Daily Kos (h/t Newsbusters). Specifically, the horror of the North Korean state is all our fault.
The specific kind of leadership and government North Korea has today is the result of its history, and especially its most recent history with America. We must consider that from the end of W.W.II until 1987 South Korea was a brutal dictatorship. Its prison camps and torture chambers were filled with not only political prisoners but also ethnic minorities and religious objectors, in fact, anyone who dared to challenge the injustice and corruption of the regime. All this time South Korea’s government had the full support of the USA. North Koreans remember this horror and base part of their posture to the USA on this history.
Can any leftist regime ever go wrong? American liberals like to treat the Soviet Bloc like it was one long bad dream, and Tom Friedman can't shut up about how he wished we lived in a society governed by technocrats and corrupt part apparatchiks. Then we get the DPRK, a communist experiment that has been an unmitigated failure. How do their leftist brains rationalize this? Clearly it's America's fault.
There are, therefore, only two ways in which socialist regimes can fail. Either its ideals were never "applied properly" as in the USSR and the Eastern Bloc, or because of sabotage and embargo by those rascally western imperialists as in Cuba. You would think that North Korea would the one case we could all agree is an objective disaster, but apparently not.
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Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
I believe I'm paraphrasing Reagan, when he said its not that liberals are stupid, its that what they know is wrong. Yes, it's remarkable that some leftists do not recognize the horrors of communism. They are apparently incapable of seeing how democracy and capitalism has "fundamentally transformed" South Korea. Of course, this guy is an anthropologist (and simply judging by my survey courses in anthropology) there has been a trend that says everything Western must be wrong (presumably only because its Western).
Aug '11
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Eric Ames:
...two ways in which socialist regimes can fail. Either its ideals were never "applied properly" ... or because of sabotage and embargo by those rascally western imperialists... You would think that North Korea would the one case we could all agree is an objective disaster, but apparently not. ·
You already answered your own question. We "sabotaged" North Korea via South Korea. Obviously, if the US is supporting a regime bordering yours, the only solution is to eliminate the free-market and to jail your dissidents as well.
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Eric,
I have no doubt that North Korea's planned economy would fail on its own as all such economies do.
However, are you perhaps dismissing the effects of embargo in creating the North Korean economic situation a bit too cavalierly? It is under more embargo than any other nation on earth. It has been under US embargo for 61 years.
Isn't the claim that North Korea is in the state it is in because of the embargo a valid one, at least in part, if not substantial part? I would hope so, otherwise we are wasting our time with it.
Also, wouldn't denying that embargo harms an economy be a tacit denial that trade positively grows an economy, which would be somewhat of an indictment of our own thinking?
Aug '11
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
His professor gig appears to be part time. Here's his day job:
http://www.e-conservationline.com/content/view/684/214/
So apparently the guy does art conservation, which is great. Good for him, but he's as qualified to comment on North Korea as any of us are.
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Tommy De Seno: Eric,
However, are you perhaps dismissing the effects of embargo in creating the North Korean economic situation a bit too cavalierly? It is under more embargo than any other nation on earth. It has been under US embargo for 61 years.
Isn't the claim that North Korea is in the state it is in because of the embargo a valid one, at least in part, if not substantial part? I would hope so, otherwise we are wasting our time with it.
Fair enough. North Korea probably would be better off without US trade barriers, but one would have to consider how open a regime like North Korea would be to that kind of US influence. The real point is that the left can't imagine socialism failing without the meddling of the insidious bourgeoisie. Let us suppose furthermore that they are right and North Korea is our fault; I don't see American leftists championing free trade with the developing world, or at least not gleefully.
Aug '11
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
I may be wrong, but "in exchange" for embargoing them, don't we give them aid? A lot of the countries we embargo aren't really embargoed. In the strictest sense. I think Tommy raises some important points and I think embargo, as a policy is something reasonable people can disagree on. I think Hitchens noted that the embargo we had against Iraq wouldve been immoral had we not been willing to undertake regime change (in the Uncommon Knowledge interview with Ginrich).
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
It's a good point I believe there is some aid to North Korea, the extent though I'm unfamiliar with.
Eric's post is interesting. Is there some real way economists can measure the effect of embargo on Communist states vs Capitalist states? Is there a difference?
Perhaps King Banaian, Ricochet's resident economist, can shed some light.
Oct '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Tommy De Seno
It's a good point I believe there is some aid to North Korea, the extent though I'm unfamiliar with.
Eric's post is interesting. Is there some real way economists can measure the effect of embargo on Communist states vs Capitalist states? Is there a difference?
Perhaps King Banaian, Ricochet's resident economist, can shed some light. · Dec 26 at 7:13pm
Why does any of the above sophistry matter? Do free people live lives which prosper because they cannot be controlled by the power structure.
When did the people of N. Korea ever get that chance?
Mar '11
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
A belief shared by our own Dear Leader. Remind me again of how he was elected, and may yet be again?
Aug '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
@Tommy. North Korea also shares a border with China. A US embargo is a trivial matter if you are just talking about economic inputs and outputs - trade with China ought to meet all of their needs. Furthermore, NK is one of the top suppliers of missile technology to rogue regimes - more access to hard currency. Their other top export is Benjamins- counterfeit $100 Federal Reserve Notes. You would think with all that money floating around they should be doing pretty well - except for that communism thingy. The one economic harm that most North Koreans remember is the massive currency devaluation the regime recently undertook to destroy the meager savings of the populace.
edited to add sources.
Edited on Dec 27, 2011 at 1:28amRe: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Very interesting. Certainly slants in favor of Communism doing the most damage to them instead of the embargo.
Aug '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Here's a pretty decent rebuttal, IMHO:
Most of us are already familiar with these sorts of photos that show the Korean peninsula at night. Nothing new here.
What many don't notice is the bright patch of light in the bottom-right corner.
That's Nagasaki.
If Nagasaki can succeed after being freakin' nuked by the United States, then how can one possibly blame the United States for North Korea's problems?
Edited on Dec 27, 2011 at 4:55amMay '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Tommy De Seno: Eric,
Isn't the claim that North Korea is in the state it is in because of the embargo a valid one, at least in part, if not substantial part? I would hope so, otherwise we are wasting our time with it.
N.K. seems to have been able to direct its resources toward what it considers to be a priority; namely nuclear weapons and missile technology, in spite of the U.S. embargo. One assumes that it would have been able to direct its resources toward broader economic development as well, should it have chosen to have done so.
Apr '11
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
I don't know much about the dictatorial days of South Korea. Did they have to guard the borders to keep their own citizens from escaping the country? That's usually a pretty good indicator of just how rotten a country is. Even if South Korea was lousy pre-1987, how does that excuse North Korea?
Aug '11
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Kervinlee
N.K. seems to have been able to direct its resources toward what it considers to be a priority; namely nuclear weapons and missile technology, in spite of the U.S. embargo. One assumes that it would have been able to direct its resources toward broader economic development as well, should it have chosen to have done so. · Dec 27 at 7:43am
My own feeling is that given that we decided they are bad enough to embargo them, we shouldn't then assume they'll use the little bit of money that they have on beneficence. I mean, they could've done that, but then why would we embargo people who would do such a thing?
Also, the problem is that our aiding NK actually facilitates their going crazier. They pretty much threaten to blow people up in order to get some more aid money. That's my big problem with a lot of our foreign aid. We end up encouraging people to go crazy in exchange for increase in aid.
May '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Goldgeller
Kervinlee
My own feeling is that given that we decided they are bad enough to embargo them, we shouldn't then assume they'll use the little bit of money that they have on beneficence. I mean, they could've done that, but then why would we embargo people who would do such a thing?
We end up encouraging people to go crazy in exchange for increase in aid. · Dec 27 at 7:18pm
Well, I agree with those that have decided that they (if one means the dictatorship that holds the power) are bad enough to embargo and I just wish our embargo was total, and not the aid-for-concessions farce we are now engaged in.
That said, "the little bit of money they have" is a problem entirely of the regime's own making. Maintaining a totalitarian control economy will benefit the top-dogs of the Kim family while guaranteeing impoverishment for the rest of the poor North Koreans. When the Kim family finally and certainly dismantles their totalitarian state, then we can talk about lifting embargoes.
Oct '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
Niccolo Caldararo strikes me as one of those professors in his ivory tower who when the world does not fit his preconceived notions refuses to see the world as it is. For me I would support Christopher Hitchens view:
“Here are the two most shattering facts about North Korea. First, when viewed by satellite photography at night, it is an area of unrelieved darkness...Second, a North Korean is on average six inches shorter than a South Korean. You may care to imagine how much surplus value has been wrung out of such a slave, and for how long, in order to feed and sustain the militarized crime family that completely owns both the country and its people.
Unlike previous racist dictatorships, the North Korean one has actually succeeded in producing a sort of new species. Starving and stunted dwarves, living in the dark, kept in perpetual ignorance and fear, brainwashed into the hatred of others, regimented and coerced and inculcated with a death cult: This horror show is in our future, and is so ghastly that our own darling leaders dare not face it and can only peep through their fingers at what is coming.”
Nov '10
Re: Lefty Blogosphere Sticking up for...North Korea?
As the renowned Sovietologist Martin Malia said, "The Soviet experiment turned totalitarian not despite its being socialist but because it was socialist," since socialism "is the ideal formula for totalitarianism" (emphasis in original). Malia, The Soviet Tragedy (emphasis in original) p. 498.
Attributing communism's wickedness to the historical authoritarianism of the country in which Marxist ideology emerges is a major blind-spot among liberals, and even among many conservatives such as Richard Pipes and Thomas Sowell. See this review of Sowell. And this seminal essay by Thomas G. West on Marx-Lenin.