Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
It's the first Law Talk of 2012, so we thought we'd start off with a fresh controversy to kick the year off: guess which law professor thinks a certain plant should be as available as any prescription drug? We'll let you ruminate on that one. In the meantime, join us as Richard, John, and Troy blaze up on The Cordray recess appointment controversy, South Carolina's voting rights case, Ron Paul, our wacky primary process, and finish up with their predictions for tomorrow's New Hampshire primary.
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Aug '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Lawyers talking about reefer feels like musicians talking about law.
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 3:23amMon....awree
Aug '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
I'd make cocaine and heroin legal before I'd make marijuana legal.
Here's my reasoning.
For me, it's ok that alcohol is legal because there are built-in disincentives to overindulgence, such as nasty hangovers and the tendency to crash you car.
Cocaine and heroin also have built-in disincentives to overindulgence, not the least of which being that they can kill you.
Yes, some will still overindulge - just like some do with alcohol.
Marijuana, on the other hand, does not have the same sort of built-in disincentives. There's pretty much no unpleasant hangover, and it's one of the few drugs where habitual users actually need less instead of more in order to get high.
As such, I simply think that legalized marijuana has far more potential for widespread societal harm than legalized cocaine or legalized heroin.
Jul '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
I've seen far more lives ruined by alcoholism. Plenty of issues with all drugs but our war on them is an abject failure in all respects. God forbid we'd do anything to lessen our police state though.
Apr '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Misthiocracy:
Marijuana, on the other hand, does not have the same sort of built-in disincentives. There's pretty much no unpleasant hangover, and it's one of the few drugs where habitual users actually need less instead of more in order to get high.
As such, I simply think that legalized marijuana has far more potential for widespread societal harm than legalized cocaine or legalized heroin. · Jan 9 at 6:32pm
Is this true? This is the first I have heard of this.
Aug '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Orchids! No, wait...bluegrass?
Jul '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
I agree about less problems the next day from overindulgence but as far as needing less I've seen habitual users(as in the wake and bake crowd) using an ounce a week which is a lot. They tend to be non motivated losers. I have seen overdose with psychosis from marijuana though but usually in the infrequent users or those stupid or unlucky enough to ingest PCP. Do not get me wrong in my stance, drugs can easily be horrible life ruining experiences.
Dec '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Absolutely Positively NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blue, I am 58 years old (I will be 59 in a few weeks). I am a child of the generation that knew best about everything and wound up finding out they knew nothing about anything.
My father was a Reform Jew, a Conservative Freudian, and an Orthodox Biochemist. The interaction of substances with the human body was his expertise. He once asked me, "Jim, what is poisonous in a Biochemistry laboratory." I thought for a moment and when I had no quick answer he said, "Everything. All of the reagents are in the lab because they react vigorously with the human body. The definition of a poison is something that reacts vigorously with the human body, therefore by definition everything in the lab is poisonous."
This was the first lesson the Orthodox Biochemist taught me as he did not want his only son to kill himself accidentally when I came to visit him at the lab. (cont.)
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 4:11amDec '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
(cont. from #7)
In the late fifties, one of my father's graduate students was different then the others. He was much older and already married with children. He was from a very poor family. His family was barely making ends meet. If he had come to my father with his problems my father would have found a solution. He was very resourceful and for his students extremely loyal.
Unfortunately, the graduate student choose his own solution to the problem. A local company needed some experiments done on a particular substance they were interested in. This graduate student found out about it through the grape vine. Without my father's knowledge he made a deal with them and did the experiments in his own basement.
If my father had known he would have told him instantly about the extreme danger of the substance. The graduate student had no hood in his basement. A hood is a device that draws the fumes coming from the experiment away from the experimenter. (cont.)
Dec '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
(cont. from #8)
The graduate student caught pneumonia and even with the excellent hospital care he was instantly given he died.
My father found out about the experiments at home afterwards. He knew immediately what had happened. The substance had destroyed the graduate students lung and left him open to infection. The pneumonia was the result not the cause.
From then on when my father found someone in the Lab not properly using the hood he would start screaming at him. He would scream so loud that you could hear him the next building over.
I am my father's son. I do not approve of the unauthorized use of substances that react with the human body. Even if the substance in all likelihood is harmless, no I do not support the unauthorized use of substances that react with the human body.
I simply am incapable of supporting this. You must take my word for it.
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 4:10amJul '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
James the issue is not the stupidity or danger of illegal drugs but rather how our war on them has failed to curtail their use and the collateral damage from illegal substances with regard to criminal behavior. Our borders are an outlaw kill zone with control ceded to the narco cartels. Marijuana is the biggest cash cow for these organized crime gangs. An estimated 50 billion dollars is spent in this capacity for all Mexican drugs. Our prisons are filled with violent and non violent criminals related to drug use and we have a police state built around this failing battle.
Edited on January 12, 2012 at 7:44amJun '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
The real issue here is even worse than Troy Senik implies. It's not even just differential calculus, it's variational calculus. :-)
Dec '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
DocJay, you do not quite understand me. I can easily grasp your rational argument. I will repeat again. I am not capable of supporting this. I just can not do it.
Good Luck.
Regards,
Jim
May '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Much of this debate can be reducible to data. What does the data show?
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 6:54amMay '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
James Gawron
DocJay, you do not quite understand me. I can easily grasp your rational argument. I will repeat again. I am not capable of supporting this. I just can not do it.
Good Luck.
Regards,
Jim · Jan 9 at 9:46pm
Sounds more like an appeal to emotionalism than an appeal to reason, don't you think? This is one hell of a concession you make: conceding the rationality of the argument in favor of legalization but nevertheless rejecting it. What is it about your father's account that overcomes your reason?
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 6:56amFeb '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
HORRORS! John Yoo thinks Florida was one of the original thirteen states. (about 10:10 in)
Oct '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Jim, I don't mean this in a cocky or snarky way, but what if someone said that they felt closer to Christ when they smoked pot?
Dec '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
Michael Labeit
James Gawron
DocJay, you do not quite understand me. I can easily grasp your rational argument. I will repeat again. I am not capable of supporting this. I just can not do it.
Good Luck.
Regards,
Jim · Jan 9 at 9:46pm
Sounds more like an appeal to emotionalism than an appeal to reason, What is it about your father's account that overcomes your reason? · Jan 9 at 9:53pm
Edited on Jan 09 at 09:56 pm
The problem with legalization is not the drug itself. It is the message it sends. This opens the door just a little to a naive belief in a physicality that only brings misery. Instead of legalizing mj why don't we concentrate on using the Free Exercise Clause properly. We must expand the role of Faith in this society. It has been shrunk by the Establishment Clause since the Scopes Trial. Why don't we fight back the right way instead of giving in to the corrupt materialist mentality of the 20th Century on into the 21st.
Jul '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
OK James, you've made a point regarding your own emotional issues and stated that it is such an argument. Fair enough. Of course stronger family units will improve the ills of society but that was not my focus even though it should be a a common focus. There are some solid libertarian arguments for legalization but I'll let someone real dedicated use those. From a societaorial stand point I consider usage levels, crime, incarceration, and every other aspect of illegal drugs. What is better is the question and I'm willing to admit I may be wrong but we have have to alter the laws to find out. It would be interesting to see the results of a stricter society like Singapore as a change in one direction but I would like to see the solution with more freedom and liberty tried first. Portugal undertook such an action at the turn of the millennium with mixed and inconclusive results. I would be curious what Portugal's doctors, cops, and parents felt about the changes. What I know is that we've been doing the same dance for a long time and it's time time to change the music.
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 9:10amDec '10
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
DocJay: OK James, you've made a point regarding your own emotional issues and stated that it is such an argument. Fair enough. Of course stronger family units will improve the ills of society but... · Jan 10 at 12:04am
Edited on Jan 10 at 12:10 am
Call me Don Quixote de la Mancha. I think there are some fights you fight no matter how long or what the odds. I agree it's time for some new tactics. Actually, what I'm talking about is a new strategic vision. We must aim at core values of faith. However, we do this by engaging in 'lawfare' at the constitutional level giving us a deeper control of all the institutions of society then we have had for 100 years.
You say I'm dreaming. I say you're right. When it's a lose lose nightmare while you're awake maybe we could use some dreaming.
Feb '11
Re: Law Talk #19: It Should Be Legal
I love every single issue of Law Talk and want to thank Troy and the professors for the thought-provoking hour.
As for drug legalization, Prof. Epstein's suggestion sounded like the best plan -- let each state set policies for itself.