Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Over the weekend, Kanye West took to Twitter to have a philosophical conversation about whether it is ever acceptable to use the B or N words in music or conversation. "I usually never tweet questions but I struggle with this so here goes… Is the word [expletive] acceptable?,” he wrote on Twitter (h/tThe Atlantic Wire).
“To be more specific, is it acceptable for a man to call a woman a [expletive] even if it’s endearing?” he asked. (For an uncensored version of these tweets, click here.)
He’s not so sure. His next tweet was a rhetorical question of sorts: “Even typing it in question form it’s [sic] still feels harsh?”
Why is West waxing philosophic about these issues? According to one of his tweets, he “was recently questioned about the use of the word [expletive] in my music and initially was offended by anyone questioning anything in my music.”
This brings up a larger issue. Misogyny and sexism have been a part of hip hop and rap culture for a long time. Rappers depicted themselves as sexist in order to authenticate their manufactured identities as gangsters and pimps. They freely use the N word for the same reason.
The language used to describe women by rappers like West, Jay-Z, Lil Wayne and others is studded with violence and sexual innuendo. Here is a compilation of Lil Wayne lyrics describing women in overtly sexual and demeaning terms. Rap lyrics from a decade ago, by artists like Dr. Dre and Eminem, were even worse (click here and scroll down to the section “misogynistic themes” to see what I’m talking about).
Though the lyrics are tamer now, the same themes remain. Jay-Z and West’s song “No Church in the Wild” also has a pretty misogynistic bent to it, especially in the second half of it, which is sung by West:
Coke on her black skin
Made a stripe like a zebra, I call that jungle fever
You will not control the threesome
Just roll the weed up until I get me some
Another song they collaborated on is called ”That’s My [expletive].”
It seems like West is having second thoughts about the type of language that he uses in his songs–maybe he’s even worried about the messages that his music–and that of his hip hop peers–sends out. Another thing to worry about is the type of behavior such extreme language could encourage in listeners (mostly young men) who would otherwise suppress their more violent impulses. I can’t help but think here of hip-hop singer Chris Brown and Rihanna, whose relationship ended after Brown beat up Rihanna so badly that she ended up in the hospital.
Toward the end of his trail of tweets, West has two pretty insightful points. The first is a litmus test about how we know if it’s ok to use these vulgar words:
Here’s the age old question, would we refer to our mothers as [expletive]? Would’ we call our fathers [expletive] or better yet [expletive]?
The answer is obviously no. He goes on to ask:
If [expletive] is such a positive word, why do we feel so uncomfortable for white people to say it, even with a hall pass?
The implicit answer is that it’s not such a positive word. Though he then asks whether the United States should allow profanity on the radio, he concludes by appealing to a higher standard of both music and manner–the great Stevie Wonder.
“Stevie Wonder,” West writes, “never had to use the word [expletive] to get his point across.”
Well said.
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Jun '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
It's not OK with me. But then I don't listen to it or buy it. And the "artists" who use these gross obscenities subtract from our cultural health.
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
TeamAmerica:
Should artistic freedom, of Mark Twain or a rapper, allow for obscenity or for using the 'N' word, depending on context and intent?
Absolutely, yes. In a free society, we allow every flavour of language.
That doesn't mean that the art is good, but we certainly allow it.
Mr. Birmingham seems to be arguing (IMHO) that obscenity is okay when used by musicians to make a good artistic point, however. If true, I think that's too restrictive.
For me, it all comes down to where we draw the line between good and acceptable.
Really, if we haven't been able to answer the question, "what is good art," by now, we're not going to crack the puzzle any time soon.
Dec '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Meh, its like salt. Its a flavor enhancer right up until there is too much of it and then it is completely unbearable.
Edited on September 4, 2012 at 9:07pmAug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
I think we have a winner!
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Allowed vs. "Acceptable"
I'm pretty hard core when it comes to free speech rights. I'm pretty resistant to any kind of legislation to control speech, even profanity.
I am strongly in the camp that West is not only "allowed" to say what he wants to say in his "music," but that this is a true statement for any artist.
This is a very different question than whether such speech is acceptable. In the case of using [expletive deleted] endearingly, I don't think that is actually possible. I think the word is vulgar and disrespectful. Society should discuss how offensive and inappropriate it is, but when society creates things like the PMRC and seeks to regulate an industry -- or pressures and industry into creating a Comics Code Authority -- then society too oversteps its bounds.
We can discuss something as offensive without book burnings and record bulldozings -- I'm trying to imagine the digital equivalent -- and should instead focus on points like those brought up by Emily. We should also enact our individual "right to not purchase/support/or listen" to such drivel.
You don't need to boycott advertisers, just stop listening and they will follow.
Dec '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
I take it as growth that West is musing aloud (ok, electronically) as to the impact of the words he uses in his music. Based on my limited exposure to the consumers of his genre, he sings/raps/whatever the way they speak to each other. The question may be, is it because he sings/raps/whatever that they speak to one another this way? If that's why he's asking, he could be taking responsibility for the impact of his music.
I can't stand it, any of it, and have fought my boys from having it in my home. Lil' Wayne seems to be especially popular music for them to want to work out to. It is a continual matter of vigilance for my wife and I to keep it our of their ears and minds, kind of like pornography (h/t to the epic comment stream to THE post of the day from Nathan Harden).
Oct '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Misthiocracy
I'm now a pretty big fan of rap artists like Grandmaster Flash, The Sugarhill Gang, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, KRS-ONE, The Dream Warriors, Jeru Da Damaja, Handsome Boy Modelling School, etc.
(I'm also a pretty big fan of nerdcore, but I'm not sure that counts.)
I was actually thinking about that when I wrote my comment. The rap you're listening to is from an earlier time and I'd say that the music has changed quite a bit since then. Rappers in those days are from a different generation that grew up in a different environment, and I wonder if that plays into it. While black poverty was common for them the culture wasn't as fragmented and dysfunctional as it is now. My age cohorts grew up in the time of fatherless families, drug-infested neighborhoods, increased violent crime, gangs, etc. The rap you like is much more sophisticated and even politically adept. You can tell just by listening to the lyrics.
Dec '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
bereket kelile
Misthiocracy
I'm now a pretty big fan of rap artists like Grandmaster Flash, The Sugarhill Gang, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, KRS-ONE, The Dream Warriors, Jeru Da Damaja, Handsome Boy Modelling School, etc.
(I'm also a pretty big fan of nerdcore, but I'm not sure that counts.)
I was actually thinking about that when I wrote my comment. The rap you're listening to is from an earlier time and I'd say that the music has changed quite a bit since then. Rappers in those days are from a different generation that grew up in a different environment, and I wonder if that plays into it. While black poverty was common for them the culture wasn't as fragmented and dysfunctional as it is now. My age cohorts grew up in the time of fatherless families, drug-infested neighborhoods, increased violent crime, gangs, etc. The rap you like is much more sophisticated and even politically adept. You can tell just by listening to the lyrics. · 1 minute ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxyYP_bS_6s
I am fairly positive that the rates violent crime have gone down dramatically even in minority neighborhoods since then.
Edited on September 4, 2012 at 9:39pmAug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
My ol' high school ball coach always told us that,
"Profanity is the attempt of a weak mind to express itself"
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
bereket kelile
I was actually thinking about that when I wrote my comment. The rap you're listening to is from an earlier time and I'd say that the music has changed quite a bit since then.
I'm not sure one can make the argument based on era, since there was certainly a lot of crap in the old days as well.
NWA, 2 Live Crew, Tupac, Snoop, etc, were all active during the same times as the artists I listed.
In fact, artists like KRS-ONE and Jeru De Damaja could be considered a reaction to the destructive gangsta rap of the time.
I'm sure there are plenty of quality, thoughtful hip-hop artists today, independently competing with the Kanyes, the Lil Waynes, and the Jay-Zs of the industry.
I simply don't know about them because I don't have the time or energy to really explore the independent hip-hop scene today (just like I don't have the time to explore today's independent punk, or jazz, or whatever, scene). That's an exercise for younger folk with more time on their hands. These days, I buy greatest hits albums.
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
In a nutshell, I think that the reason that people develop an aversion to the music "the kids are listening to these days", is because if you aren't actively seeking out the quality stuff, you only hear the crappiest stuff that rises to the top of the zeitgeist.
When I was a teen, I didn't listen to top-40. It was crap then, just as it's crap now. I went out and found independent or more obscure stuff.
As I get older, I don't have time to put in that much effort, so the majority of the new music I hear is the crappy top-40 stuff.
That doesn't mean that "the kids" have stopped listening to good music. It simply means that I no longer have the time and energy to seek it out as much as I used to.
(I do get good new music via podcasts, which are a god-send for me, but I think the theory is still sound.)
Jun '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Get thee to a nunnery with all its implications is quite a bit different than calling someone an out and out expletive — in tone, in degradation, and in harshness. I don't expect sociability but I do expect civility.
Misthiocracy
When Hamlet says to Ophelia, "get thee to a nunnery," he was essentially calling her a whore.
Was Shakespeare wrong to use such abusive language? · 3 hours ago
Dec '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Is nudity ok in painting, sculpture, photography?
Jan '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Misthiocracy
Interestingly, I listened to none of it growing up, but I have learned to appreciate quite a bit of it (almost exclusively older stuff) these days.
I'm now a pretty big fan of rap artists like Grandmaster Flash, The Sugarhill Gang, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, KRS-ONE, The Dream Warriors, Jeru Da Damaja, Handsome Boy Modelling School, etc.
(I'm also a pretty big fan of nerdcore, but I'm not sure that counts.)
In short, I cannot write off an entire genre due to the abuses of its least-talented artists. I can find good in every genre.
I think few conservatives could listen to Jeru Da Damaja's Ya Playin' Yourself without nodding in appreciation, and maybe even dancing a little. · 4 hours ago
Edited 4 hours ago
I could still listen to some KRS-One/BDP. Ice-T is pretty good, as well.
Sort of on/off topic here but I just read an article from reason about a Nicki Minaj/Lil Wayne song in which she endorses Mitt Romney in her own vulgar way.
Oct '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Misthiocracy
I'm not sure one can make the argument based on era, since there was certainly a lot of crap in the old days as well.
One always has to be careful about over-generalizing, and I'm not trying to be simplistic but the music has changed quite a bit over the years. Of course, things are always changing, even now, but, nevertheless, there was a change in quality in the most popular music of that genre. I'm not just cherry-picking in order to make my point. There definitely was a downswing and there very well may be an upswing because of artists coming out now who take a different approach and are very talented. But if my comments sound like I'm saying it was good then and bad now then I didn't communicate effectively.
Aug '12
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Rap is full of sub-genres and sub-Sub-genres. "RAP" or "Hip-Hop" is no longer specific enough of a term, if it ever was.
There has been a definite decline in mainstream rap, and in mainstream music in genre.
The "mainstream" is shrinking and it has become more simple and more vulgar in an attempt to hold the audience. Again, this is not just with rap, but all forms of music. Television and movies too, for that matter.
There has always been great stuff out there, but in a fragmented marketplace it is harder to find.
For instance, most people won't find one of the best Mc's around, a man named Shai Linne. Why? Because he's Christian rap & he raps almost exclusively on doctrinal issues. Some hard core intellectual and spiritual stuff that also happens to be some of the best wordplay around.
But, he's hard to find because he's in a sub-sub genre.
It's fine to say you don't like Rap, but when people dismiss the whole genre, it does a disservice to those who are creating great art and trying to elevate culture.
Aug '12
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
As for Kanye...
One of his ongoing themes has been about the struggle between knowing what's right and choosing to do what's wrong.
His last album sounded great, but lyrically it was an emotional and spiritual wasteland. He's gone from his early days of "I want to talk to God but I'm afraid because we ain't spoke in so long." t0 his latest album proclaiming "I'm a ****** ******* monster". I'm wondering if he is feeling that emptiness and reassessing some things.
The problem with the specific words he is mentioning isn't that they are vulgar, but that they are demeaning.
The vulgar attitudes towards women on display in mainstream rap are a product of the genre being closest to mainstream youth culture at this moment.
Think about the way hair metal treated women in the 80's when it was the music of the youth culture. Motley Crue rivals any rap artist for disgusting treatment of women.
Our "enlightened" pop culture gives women "girl power" and treats them like dirt.
That's why I hope Kanye makes a change of heart towards women, not just a change in lyrics, and that others follow...
Edited on September 5, 2012 at 4:17am