Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Over the weekend, Kanye West took to Twitter to have a philosophical conversation about whether it is ever acceptable to use the B or N words in music or conversation. "I usually never tweet questions but I struggle with this so here goes… Is the word [expletive] acceptable?,” he wrote on Twitter (h/tThe Atlantic Wire).
“To be more specific, is it acceptable for a man to call a woman a [expletive] even if it’s endearing?” he asked. (For an uncensored version of these tweets, click here.)
He’s not so sure. His next tweet was a rhetorical question of sorts: “Even typing it in question form it’s [sic] still feels harsh?”
Why is West waxing philosophic about these issues? According to one of his tweets, he “was recently questioned about the use of the word [expletive] in my music and initially was offended by anyone questioning anything in my music.”
This brings up a larger issue. Misogyny and sexism have been a part of hip hop and rap culture for a long time. Rappers depicted themselves as sexist in order to authenticate their manufactured identities as gangsters and pimps. They freely use the N word for the same reason.
The language used to describe women by rappers like West, Jay-Z, Lil Wayne and others is studded with violence and sexual innuendo. Here is a compilation of Lil Wayne lyrics describing women in overtly sexual and demeaning terms. Rap lyrics from a decade ago, by artists like Dr. Dre and Eminem, were even worse (click here and scroll down to the section “misogynistic themes” to see what I’m talking about).
Though the lyrics are tamer now, the same themes remain. Jay-Z and West’s song “No Church in the Wild” also has a pretty misogynistic bent to it, especially in the second half of it, which is sung by West:
Coke on her black skin
Made a stripe like a zebra, I call that jungle fever
You will not control the threesome
Just roll the weed up until I get me some
Another song they collaborated on is called ”That’s My [expletive].”
It seems like West is having second thoughts about the type of language that he uses in his songs–maybe he’s even worried about the messages that his music–and that of his hip hop peers–sends out. Another thing to worry about is the type of behavior such extreme language could encourage in listeners (mostly young men) who would otherwise suppress their more violent impulses. I can’t help but think here of hip-hop singer Chris Brown and Rihanna, whose relationship ended after Brown beat up Rihanna so badly that she ended up in the hospital.
Toward the end of his trail of tweets, West has two pretty insightful points. The first is a litmus test about how we know if it’s ok to use these vulgar words:
Here’s the age old question, would we refer to our mothers as [expletive]? Would’ we call our fathers [expletive] or better yet [expletive]?
The answer is obviously no. He goes on to ask:
If [expletive] is such a positive word, why do we feel so uncomfortable for white people to say it, even with a hall pass?
The implicit answer is that it’s not such a positive word. Though he then asks whether the United States should allow profanity on the radio, he concludes by appealing to a higher standard of both music and manner–the great Stevie Wonder.
“Stevie Wonder,” West writes, “never had to use the word [expletive] to get his point across.”
Well said.
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Jun '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Maybe his real question is:
Is it worth alienating these people (below,) that he'd also like to identify with?
Jun '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Most prifanity is unnecessary, in music or otherwise.
It's a by product of the "shock" based so-called "Free Speech" movement out of Berkeley in the late 60s, which was intellectual window dressing for a bunch of kids who wanted to use foul language without social ramifications.
Feb '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
I don't know whether this is a serious bout of soul searching, or a publicity stunt for the new "rapper-philosopher Kanye", but he's stumbled across the fact that today to be the most controversial you have to be socially conservative.
Jun '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
My first question is "How can the expletive every being endearing?" It never ever has a good connotation when used in naming a female.
I think if you have to ask, you know it is wrong.
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
It seems to me that there are two separate questions in this post:
After reading only the title of the post, my answer would be that it's perfectly alright to use profanity, depending on the context.
Shakespeare uses profanity. Chaucer uses profanity. I see nothing wrong per se with Carlin's "The Seven Words You Can't Say On Television."
But then, Mr. West's examples are about abuse, not profanity. "It is okay to call a woman a b-word?" That's a question about using abusive language towards a particular person or group. That's a totally different question.
The flip side to that question would be, "is it ok to maliciously insult a person, as long as you do not use profanity?"
Edited on September 4, 2012 at 7:02pmAug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
True, but being unnecessary is not the same as being ethically wrong.
Jul '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Hey Kayne, do you like fish sticks?(see South Park for explanation)
May '12
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Good writers too
Who once knew better words,
Now only use four letter words
Writing prose.
Anything goes.
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
When Hamlet says to Ophelia, "get thee to a nunnery," he was essentially calling her a whore.
Was Shakespeare wrong to use such abusive language?
Jul '12
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
For me the answer is simple:
Hip-hop and its environment is basically a cesspool. Trying to find anything of value there is a hopeless endeavor. Lyrically it is vapid or worse, and the music, lyrics notwithstanding, is just gimmickry.
I imagine there may be some exceptions, but I've heard a fair amount of the genre and am as yet unaware of any.
Nov '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Misthiocracy
When Hamlet says to Ophelia, "get thee to a nunnery," he was essentially calling her a whore.
Was Shakespeare wrong to use such abusive language? · 9 minutes ago
The difference is that Hamlet is a fictional individual speaking to another fictional individual. There was never any sense that Shakespeare himself was addressing a real woman with those words. Kanye West presents his lyrics as his own words, and while I'm not 100% certain that the [female canines] and [misspelled racial slur, which makes it a totally different word!] he's addressing are supposed to be real people, the implication remains that Kanye really does believe what he's saying.
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Umbra Fractus
Misthiocracy
When Hamlet says to Ophelia, "get thee to a nunnery," he was essentially calling her a whore.
Was Shakespeare wrong to use such abusive language? · 9 minutes ago
The difference is that Hamlet is a fictional individual speaking to another fictional individual. There was never any sense that Shakespeare himself was addressing a real woman with those words. Kanye West presents his lyrics as his own words, and while I'm not 100% certain that the [female canines] and [misspelled racial slur, which makes it a totally different word!] he's addressing are supposed to be real people, the implication remains that Kanye really does believe what he's saying.
So, it's only alright if the example is unambigiously fictional?
That position would seem to damn satirical writers, such as Jonathan Swift for example, who are very ambiguous regarding the line between fiction and commentary.
(Now, is it ok for Kanye West to use this language? No, because I think Kanye West sux. I wish he would stop using language altogether ;-)
May '11
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Thank you for that, DocJay. It's especially funny in this context, because I think the same guy they mocked in that episode is the same guy who is asking these dumb questions on twitter. The joke continues to be on him.
Sep '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
This issue is oddly similar to the fascinating discussion about internet porn. Who is harmed by the disgusting lyrics of Kanye West? I don't listen to him but if I do its because someone has pointed out some humor, however vulgar it might be, in the lyrics but young men who listen to nothing but this kind of stuff and who probably don't have very large vocabularies anyway are likely just as harmed as the internet porn addicts whose brains can be measured to discover the ill effects of their bad habits. Chances are they are the ones who had difficult meeting girls anyway. I find it amusing that Kanye himself appears at best only marginally aware that he might have given someone offense in the first place.
Oct '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Not to derail the conversation but I think another underlying problem with hip hop music/culture is that it is infantile. My brother and I both listened to it growing up and we don't listen to it much anymore. I think we both feel that we've outgrown it. I feel like I've moved on and matured into this part of my life and, from my outsider's perspective, it seems that the guys who still listen to it just haven't left adolescence. It's like a neverland, where you're always in high school and you never grow up. You try to be cool and have the latest sneakers. It seems to fit with a wider problem among black men of being productive, taking responsibility, and becoming men.
May '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Profanity is fine.....if you want to advertise to the world that you are an inadequate intellect housed in a crude and crass individual.
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
One must keep in mind that Mr. West's asked if it is acceptable to use misogynistic language in his music, not if it is good to use misogynistic language in his music.
The question itself might speak volumes about where Mr. West is coming from. He seems to be less concerned with creating music of quality and more concerned with creating music that is palatable.
Now, he already knows that he can use misogynistic language and still be able to sell his music. Therefore, it follows that the language is palatable to a subset of the paying audience, and Mr. West must already know this, since he's the one reaping the financial rewards.
Therefore, the question is directed at a different group. He really wants to know if misogynistic language is palatable to opinion-leaders.
In other words, "what can I get away with and still be invited to progressive fundraisers?"
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
I'd rather juxtapose your title.
Profanity: Is Kanye West in Music Ok ?
a wise man once told me that any country, culture is as good as it treats it's women.
simple
Aug '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Interestingly, I listened to none of it growing up, but I have learned to appreciate quite a bit of it (almost exclusively older stuff) these days.
I'm now a pretty big fan of rap artists like Grandmaster Flash, The Sugarhill Gang, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, KRS-ONE, The Dream Warriors, Jeru Da Damaja, Handsome Boy Modelling School, etc.
(I'm also a pretty big fan of nerdcore, but I'm not sure that counts.)
In short, I cannot write off an entire genre due to the abuses of its least-talented artists. I can find good in every genre.
I think few conservatives could listen to Jeru Da Damaja's Ya Playin' Yourself without nodding in appreciation, and maybe even dancing a little.
Edited on September 4, 2012 at 8:14pmOct '10
Re: Kanye West: Is Profanity in Music OK?
Misogynic words aside, an Australian author I like, John Birmingham, reported that he told his kids obscenity is okay when used by musicians to make some artistic point. I'm not sure if I agree, but I put it out for discussion. Should artistic freedom, of Mark Twain or a rapper, allow for obscenity or for using the 'N' word, depending on context and intent? Birmingham was once interviewed on PJTV.com and is one of Australia's most prominent writers, albeit somewhat liberal. His blog is here: http://www.cheeseburgergothic.com/