Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Blue Yeti ·
Aug 12, 2011 at 5:57pm
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May '10
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
As a former elected official, Scarborough understands that being an effective legislator -- and especially being a governor or president -- requires making savvy compromises to advance your agenda. Every consequential politician, starting with George Washington, has compromised in office – Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR, and Reagan, some of our most consequential presidents, all compromised on matters they cared about a lot in order to advance their overall worldview and implement the policies they cared most about.
Michele Bachmann pretends that compromise isn't necessary in politics. She is able to get away with doing so because, having accomplished nothing, she has never had to compromise.
If she is permitted to succeed, the GOP faces a future where its governors are unelectable in presidential contests, because being a successful governor requires compromise. Bachmann's rise is testament to the naivete of her backers, who erroneously imagine that if she is elected, she'll be able to implement her agenda without compromising. That has never happened in American history, and it never will happen.
Mar '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
I imagine you purchase a great many overpriced cars.
Only a fool weakens their hand before they're even at the table. No doubt your advice to Reagan at Reykjavik would have had him giving back Alaska. These are the primaries, anyone compromising their principles now is too weak to be any sort of effective leader.
As for Scarborough's rant, he and others seem to be expending a great amount of vitriol and effort on a "joke". If she is as unserious as he claims to believe, what is he afraid of? That all the non-jokes will be unable to defeat her for the nomination? That would make other contenders something less than jokes I imagine.
Edited on Aug 12, 2011 at 6:45pmJul '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Uh, no.
Bachmann's rise is due to a number of factors, none of which you mention. Her rise is, first and foremost, due to the fact that she is running an unapologetic conservative campaign that reflects the concerns of millions. I'm fully aware that she could not implement her ideas without compromise, but there's an old expression, "If you want to punch somebody in the nose, aim for the back of their head." She's not willing to concede anything before negotiating so she comes across as unreasonable and strident. Who knows, maybe she really is. But at this point I'd rather take my chances on someone with the backbone to fight for smaller government than someone who is perfectly comfortable with big government as long as "our side" is in control. I'm looking for a leader and nobody else is stepping up to assume that role (although the jury is still out on Perry in that regard).
Edited on Aug 12, 2011 at 7:01pmJun '10
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Joe who?
Mar '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
So Joe's guy was John McCain, Mr. reach across the isle and compromise, how did that work out for ya Joe?
We may need to compromise, but when we do it should be from a position of strength when a compromise would actually promote our agenda as opposed to the kind of compromise the "moderates" would prefer that is nothing more than slow paced capitulation.
Mar '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Speaking of a joke, what would you call the compliant, subservient "conservative" on a network for moon-bat crazy leftists?
That's right a J - O - K - E!
Oct '10
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
she's unelectable everywhere else exept in the Iowa straw poll and caucus.
Feb '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
When exactly did Joe go to the dark side? His rant was unbelievable and bordering on incomprehensible. I am curious why Joe would expend so much vitriol on someone that he holds in such low regard. If Michele is anything like Joe portrays her to be, won't she self destruct in the primary process? If that is what Joe believes, why would he even waste his time ripping her apart? Was Joe just sucking up to his masters at MSNBC?
Perhaps I am old school, but I think it's better to select someone with proven leadership experience and large organization management skills, like a governor, rather than a legislator. It is the rare legislator that stands out with the skill set necessary to step onto the "big stage". Barack Obama is the most recent failure example and so I rest my case.
Apr '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
T-Jack, I agree. Well written post.
May '10
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
To paraphrase the defense of Bachmann being offered here, we're supposed to presume that she is saying one thing -- that she'll never compromise -- knowing that once in office she'll have to do so.
In other words, her positions, on their face, are absurd, and can be defended only as negotiating tactics.
But what if she's serious?
Or if you reject that possibility -- I don't know why you would -- isn't the logic of Bachmann supporters that, unlike other politicians, she is a true believer, and isn't just saying whatever falsehoods need to be uttered to get elected?
If her rhetoric now doesn't give us a clue to what she'll actually do if elected, why the confidence that she'll govern as a conservative? It isn't as if she has a long record of executive accomplishment as proof.
Jul '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Conor Friedersdorf: ...we're supposed to presume that she is saying one thing -- that she'll never compromise -- knowing that once in office she'll have to do so.
In other words, her positions, on their face, are absurd, and can be defended only as negotiating tactics.
I'm at a loss to understand the vitriol directed at Bachmann from her own side. How is the above critique any different what can be said about most politicians? Who would vote for someone who openly proclaims one thing, then in the next breath says, "Never mind, I'll compromise on the key issues in order to get a deal done"?
Arguments against her would be more convincing if they were substantive in nature and not strategic ("She can't win". Oh yeah? Excuse me if I don't take your word for it.) or simply rhetorical ("She said she'd never compromise!").
You can't beat somebody with nobody. In the race for the nomination conservatives are trying to defeat the establishment technocrat(s) - there's nothing to apologize for in that! - and the somebody that's stepped up to take him on is Bachmann.
Mar '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Hmm, our government is composed of three branches as enumerated in the Constitution. An elected representative who actually intends to honor her oath to our founding documents from the office of the presidency also avows to restore conservative principles from that office within the limits imposed by the Constitution working with the other two branches.
I must admit, I miss your point Mr. Friedersdorf. You are too subtle and sly for me, perhaps you could reframe your arguments in some coherent manner and those dullards such as myself would be able to follow them.
Jul '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Conor Friedersdorf: ... She is able to get away with doing so because, having accomplished nothing, she has never had to compromise.
... Bachmann's rise is testament to the naivete of her backers, who erroneously imagine that if she is elected, she'll be able to implement her agenda without compromising.
I don't want to keep flogging this horse, but I want to add one thing: Your dismissive tone toward Bachmann and her supporters adds nothing to the conversation. The aim of the primary season is to debate policy differences within the party and, with luck, come as close to reaching a broad-based consensus as possible. The attitude displayed by Joe Scarborough and in your post is noxious and will only make uniting the party more difficult at a time when unity will be critical.
Apr '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
President Obama was less significant as a legislator than Michelle Bachman, campaigned against Hillary, became the golden boy to the progressive mob and was catapulted to the White House in spite of blowhards like Joe Scarborough who I don't believe ever called BHO a joke.
He reminds me of movie critics and the media who fawn over the next great movie which wins the academy award and most of the "fly over" citizens never wasted their time seeing it. Who cares what he thinks. If she resonates with enough people throughout this country she will be elected and would make a more principled president than Joe Scarborough could ever hope to be. He sounds just like the "lecturer in chief" speaking to the be-knighted citizens he so disdains.
Mar '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Mr. Yeti the cynic in me suspects you were directed to start this conversation in hopes of generating click views. In future discussions attempt to add to some insight, this effort was low.
Edited on Aug 12, 2011 at 9:24pmJan '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Bachmann is open to compromise, even on the debt ceiling.
From her campaign website:
"It’s time to draw a line in the sand, and put the federal government back in its place. Congress cannot and should not vote to increase the borrowing limit for the government unless serious steps are taken to reduce spending, and most important, unless the legislation to raise the debt ceiling includes the full repeal of Obamacare, which will add at least $1 trillion to the budget."
Sounds like a negotiating position to me. Surely Mr. Obama is open-minded about repeal of his wildly unpopular healthcare legislation. Surely he is willing to compromise on it to maintain the full faith and credit of the US. He's not some zealot or ideologue, is he?
But let's make a list for Conor's benefit. The list will consist of
POSITIONS ON WHICH PROMINENT DEMOCRAT LAWMAKERS WHO ARE TAKEN SERIOUSLY SAY THEY WILL NEVER COMPROMISE
I'll start it off.
ABORTION
AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
PROGRESSIVE TAXATION
PRAYER IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS
RIGHT TO WORK
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Conor, you are totally correct.
May '10
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Scarborough's rant:
"Michele Bachmann's first answer, Mark Halperin, was, 'I wish the Federal government had defaulted.' Had defaulted! A week after Americans lost, some of them lost perhaps half of their pensions, lost half of their 401(k)s, when trillions of dollars went down the drain, with Americans suffering, she said that and got applause...."
Here's the transcript, Joe. Now, why don't you tell me where she said that she wished the Federal government had defaulted? She said, "We should not have increased the debt ceiling." This is not the same thing as saying we should have defaulted, and Susan Ferrechio specifically acknowledged Bachmann's separation of those two ideas -- not raising the debt ceiling and defaulting on debt -- later in the transcript.
While I'm not 100% positive whether default could have been avoided by holding fast on the debt ceiling, I can certainly understand the theory behind it. But it sounds to me that Joe Scarborough is too stupid (or too drunk?) to even grasp the possibility.
I suspect that disqualifies him to dispense Slurpees in Des Moines, but abundantly qualified to be an MSNBC prognosticator.
Mar '11
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Ah Mr. Murphy, surely you can offer us more than that for this discussion. As Ricochet's resident... now I am restrained by our CoC. Regardless no doubt you can put forward a bit of red meat to keep us interested, something more than such vacuous inanities. Come now sir, a bit of effort if you please.
Jul '10
Re: Joe Scarborough: Michele Bachmann Is A Joke
Michele Bachmann understood that the Debt Ceiling bill was and is toxic, and her vote was a recognition of that fact. A "default" will never happen under the Constitution. All of the kiddie stories were just that. What would happen is that the slowing of federal payments would force lawmakers to adopt a serious compromise that puts the federal budget back on a sustainable, realistic footing without destroying the economy. The alternative, cited by Geithner and Greenspan, is to inflate away the debt. A completely irresponsible tax by inflation on whatever savings Americans may have held onto since 2007.
After Paul Rahe's eye-opening post on Geithner and the White House decision process here, a process wherein policy is adopted at a whim regardless of any input from fiscal review, anyone trying to paint Obama rapid rail to ruin spend-a-thon as a serious attempt at governance does so at the risk of their own credibility.
Bachmann gets it. Maybe Gingrich gets it.
Scarborough? Nah.