Joe Frazier. American Hero.
The loss of a boyhood idol makes writing his obituary difficult. I loved Joe Frazier. He was an American hero.
My first recollection of wanting to be anything when I grew up was to be a boxer. I wanted to bob and weave like Joe and have people talk about my punch like they did Smokin’ Joe’s left hook. The most watched sport in my house was boxing, and any big fight was an event.
See that picture to the right taken during Ali-Frazier 1? It’s an iconic photo you’ve probably seen before. It’s also a family heirloom - the gentleman to the right in the photo in the white shirt and tie is my uncle Billy Dello.
Though only 7 years old at the time, I recall the night of Ali-Frazier 1 vividly. I couldn’t see the fight, but remember waiting to hear the result with the excitement of Christmas Eve.
Of course I didn’t understand the socio-political contest that Ali-Frazier 1 took on (neither did Joe). For me it boiled down to what 7 year old boys could understand – one guy had a big mouth and bragged too much and the other guy was going to shut it. Joe did.
Growing up in a predominately black neighborhood, I’ve lived through some times where I’m certain the predominately white media got it all wrong. After Joe won, while I’m sure radical blacks like Panthers and Nation of Islam members were crying in their misplaced hopes they put in a boxing match along with anti-war whites, everyday blacks weren’t so tied to “the movement.”
The following day was a school day. Every boy on our playground was yelling “I’m Joe Frazier” followed by a protest of the next closest boy who would pump out up his chest and yell, “No I’m Joe Frazier!” So many fights broke out on the playground that day the teachers couldn’t stop them all, but don’t get the wrong idea. Like boxing itself, these fights were sport. No one was angry. No one stopped being friends when the school bell rang. No one got in trouble. Each of us was trying to show we could be Joe Frazier – the boxer, the hero, the bully-killer.
As I grew older, I became fascinated reading about the politics that subsumed the fight. Once again, the white media got it all wrong, and Joe Frazier was misidentified as something he wasn’t – the “white” fighter as antagonist to the “black” hopes for civil rights that Ali came to represent. Somehow, media turned Ali into black America and Joe into white America.
But take a better look at the men and who they really were – consider which was “more black” and which was the better American.
Joe Frazier was a poor share-cropper’s son from Beaufort South Carolina. He was a farm hand who made his own heavy bag out of a burlap sack and taught himself to box. He was a rugged individual. He was self-reliant. Like many southern blacks Frazier came north to find a better life. He was 15 when he took the bus north by himself.
Muhammad Ali grew up in a suburb in Louisville Kentucky - closer to middle class than anything else. He learned to box in a gym with real equipment and trainers. White boxing mentors took him under wing at 12. He was never a poor southern black as was Joe Frazier. He never embodied the American black experience.
It was an injustice to Joe that they tried to turn him into some sort of Uncle Tom or white man’s fighter. He epitomized the rural American black man. Ironically, it was Ali who was stripped of his Muslim name by the Nation of Islam. Why? Ali refused to stop fighting “for the white man’s money.” Neither was an Uncle Tom, but it was terribly wrong that the media assisted Ali in painted Joe as such.
Both men won the Gold medal for America in the Olympics, but only Ali threw his away in the Ohio River in protest to America. I cringed when they selected him years later to light the Olympic flame. It should have been Joe.
Joe Frazier was a better fighter, a better American and a better representative of blacks than Muhammad Ali.
America will miss Joe Frazier dearly.
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May '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Muhammad Ali grew up in a suburb in Louisville Kentucky - closer to middle class than anything else. He learned to box in a gym with real equipment and trainers. White boxing mentors took him under wing at 12. He was never a poor southern black as was Joe Frazier. He never embodied the American black experience.
Just exactly, precisely, specifically what is the "Black Experience"? I have heard this term for decades now.
I met Ali. At 6'2", I still had to look up to see his eyes. I had to look from side-to-side to see his shoulders. He was huge! And as best as I could tell from his face and his hands, he was all black.
I never met Frazier. I did see highlights of the fight. I felt he was a better fighter. As best as I can tell he too was all black.
The same goes for Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Rev. Wright, and Louis Farrakhan. As far as I can tell, they are all black. Who of these people represents the "Black Experience?"
When can we put this trope away and begin to talk about character? Frazier had character.
Mar '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Spot on, Tommy. Ali was by all accounts a good kid, but because of ignorance born of his illiteracy got swept up in militant Black Muslim rhetoric. By the time his career was over, Ali's stupid comments on race, and the hoopla that surrounded them, had erased much of the work genuine civil rights pioneers had worked, bled, and died for. For all the talk of Ali being a civil rights pioneer, I'd estimate that he actually set race relations back about twenty years.
Beyond that, boxers were a respectful lot in public until Ali's antics changed things forever. Now it's commonplace for a boxer in front of a microphone to be a fountain of R-rated garbage--a direct result of Ali opening the valve. I love boxing--I have a closet full of press credentials from covering it--but I hardly pay attention to it any longer, because of Ali's influence.
Frazier was my hero.
Edited on Nov 8, 2011 at 6:09amMay '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Thanks for the history lesson, I did not know that political history.
RIP Smoking Joe!
Jan '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
I admire both Ali and Frazier. I don't think it's necessary to disparage Ali to honor Frazier. Ali did some foolish things but he was authentic and sui generis. Beyond his brilliant achievements as an athlete, he has done amazing things around the world for various charities and has inspired millions to greatness. His win over George Foreman is still one of the greatest fights and amazing upsets in sports. Frazier was great and often under appreciated and under celebrated, but Ali was a much greater boxer and fighter. Let's not get carried away with ourselves.
Edited on Nov 8, 2011 at 6:46amJul '10
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Ali did enough to stain himself; no one has to do it for him. Frazier gave him financial support and help at a time when Ali was a pariah for his refusal to go to war, and Ali repaid him by calling him a gorilla and Uncle Tom. Frazier was the quintessential American success story, fighting his way up from poverty and making something of himself. That he did this without the hatred and vileness that defined Ali speaks volumes about who was the more authentic of the two, and who was the better man.
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Pilli: Just exactly, precisely, specifically what is the "Black Experience"? I have heard this term for decades now.
The same goes for Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Rev. Wright, and Louis Farrakhan. As far as I can tell, they are all black. Who of these people represents the "Black Experience?"
Your point is not lost on me. I'm playing their game. It was the race baiters who set this fight up as white v black, with Ali being representative of repressed blacks.
My point is if you take a closer look, Joe Frazier would have had the more difficult background as a southern black man than Ali, and had more to complain about. But he wasn't complaining.
The worst that happened to middle class Ali growing up was that someone stole his bicycle.
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Gus Marvinson:
Beyond that, boxers were a respectful lot in public until Ali's antics changed things forever. Now it's commonplace for a boxer in front of a microphone to be a fountain of R-rated garbage--a direct result of Ali opening the valve. I love boxing--I have a closet full of press credentials from covering it--but I hardly pay attention to it any longer, because of Ali's influence.
So true. I've made that point to my kids that with the exception of perhaps Gorgeous George, Ali was first to introduce trash talking to sports and made it much less sportsmanlike.
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
We can spend all day on this part of it! But I wouldn't want to turn Ricochet into a sports website.
I can separate Ali the boxer from Ali the phony (which he was). I rank him in my top 5 greatest heavyweights of all time.
Ali once said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Liston was the scariest man I ever fought, Forman was the most powerful man I ever fought, but Joe Frazier was the toughest man I ever fought."
Better than Ali or not, I'll take Joe as toughest.
Jun '10
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
I agree with BT...Frazier was a good man and a great fighter. Praise him all you want. He deserves it. As for Ali, to disparage him for his choice on Vietnam is to disparage millions of Americans who felt the same way. Only Ali really, really paid for his conscience. He went to jail and gave up his Heavyweight Championship belt. He practiced civil disobedience with honor and gave up huge treasures and nearly his entire career. At his peek Ali was the most widely known and revered person on the planet. Yes he was quite the character in his youth, but he was true to himself and did harm to no one. But back to the main story, may Joe Frazier rest in peace.
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
I'm going to disagree. Ali was a phony on Viet Nam. He claimed that his Muslim faith was important to him and would not allow him to fight in the war.
His Muslim faith also disallowed him cheating on his wife and boxing for money. He told his Muslim faith too bad. That's when Elijah Muhammad stripped the name "Muhammad Ali" from him.
So let's recap. War is not a pleasure. He said his Muslim faith disallowed it.
Cheating on his wife and boxing for money were fun things. Compared to those, his Muslim faith was not that important.
I call him phony.
Jul '10
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
I'm sorry, but I really can't let this pass uncommented on. To claim Ali "did harm to no one" is an outright lie especially in regards to how he treated Joe Frazier. Frazier was hurt deeply by Ali's taunts of "gorilla" and "Uncle Tom". The way he mocked and belittled Frazier, called him stupid, and disparaged his appearance would have been incendiary if a white man had said them. Ali was despicable, and doubly so if you know that Frazier had given Ali financial support when Ali was broke and no one wanted anything to do with him. It just reiterates how little Frazier was really appreciated that 40 years later people still choose to ignore Ali's ugliness and dismiss the garbage Frazier had to endure from Ali for doing nothing more than trying to befriend him. Frazier deserved and deserves better.
Jun '10
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Great comments. All of which brings up a current question: what happened to the great heavyweights? I can't name even one, but I can name Pacquiao and Mayweather.
Jan '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Whiskey, you can't be serious. Your entire argument about the despicable nature of Ali is that he called Frazier mean names? Really? It's called fight promotion, and psychological warfare. He got inside Frazier's head. That was over the line because Frazier had given him some money? The two were about to go into a ring and bash each other's heads in, but you think Ali was a bad guy for saying mean things about a guy he was getting paid to put in the hospital. Ali's life is a lot more than the comments he made in the lead up to a fight. I think your perspective lacks some proportionality.
Edited on Nov 8, 2011 at 10:06amRe: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
Agreed. They are all playing football for bigger dollars now, I believe.
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
"Called him names" lacks proportionality. This fight had extreme social implications. Ali and the media successfully turned Joe into something he was not in the eyes of the world. They made him the poster boy for Uncle Tom'ing, anti-civil rights and war.
That's a tad more than name calling, don't you think?
Jul '10
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
BThompson, you really see nothing wrong with Ali referring to him as a gorilla and an Uncle Tom? Those terms are racially charged, hateful speech, and Ali knew it. It's bad enough Ali cynically used them to hype a fight and try to gain an edge, but for people to still treat it like it was nothing simply because Ali didn't really mean it is disgusting. If a white fighter had said those things, serious or not, there would have been riots, but Ali gets a free pass. Why?
It obviously was more than just some "mean names" to Frazier because it kept coming up the rest of Frazier's life. 25 years later he was still angry enough about it that when Ali was trotted out to light the Olympic torch in Atlanta, Frazier remarked that he would have liked to have pushed him in. Five years after that he said in an interview that he was still waiting for an apology from Ali. That era was turbulent enough with regards to race without people like Ali crassly trying to exploit it for personal gain. How is he any different than the Sharptons of today?
Jan '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
I'm from the Philadelphia area, and the town loved Joe Frazier -- rightfully so.
I won't disparage Ali, because I know I'm biased. Frazier was our guy. If Ali had been St. Cassius, we'd have still loved Frazier over him.
Sylvester Stallone may have written the first Rocky with Chuck Wepner in mind, but as the character developed, he became more and more like Frazier. Like Frazier, Rocky would take shots and keep coming. It became the theme; Smokin' Joe kept coming, all the time, relentlessly.
It seems odd to say this about a fighter, but may he rest in peace.
Jan '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
The fact that Frazier would let that stick in his craw so long says as much about Frazier's personal shortcomings as it does Ali's, as far as I'm concerned. Sticks and stones, afterall. How is Ali different than Sharpton? He got in the ring with Frazier and let him take his best shot. Ali came out on top, such is life.
Frazier could have dealt with Ali's taunts in all sorts of effective ways, he simply didn't have the cunning to do so. You may think that makes him more of a gentleman, I think it just means he wasn't that bright. That's not intended to be hurtful, I'm just pointing out that it's a mistake to equate a slow wit with character. I have a feeling his inability to let go of the insults had more to do with the fact that he lost the fight, than the fact that what Ali said was so unforgivable.
Anyway, he was a great champion, as was Ali, in my book. I think Ali has done plenty to atone for any sins he committed while promoting himself, and if you want to praise Frazier's virtues, I'm with you, but that shouldn't require trashing others.
Edited on Nov 8, 2011 at 10:31amDec '10
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
BThompson: The two were about to go into a ring and bash each other's heads in, but you think Ali was a bad guy for saying mean things about a guy he was getting paid to put in the hospital.. · Nov 8 at 9:34am
Edited on Nov 08 at 10:06 am
Remember that when Saddam Hussein was hanged people were criticized for taunting him. It was OK to tie a rope around his neck and then drop the floor out from under him breaking his neck and killing him, but not to badger him.
Jan '11
Re: Joe Frazier. American Hero.
I don't care that people taunted Hussein. I think one can argue that acting that way simply let Hussein continue to take something from his victims. They let him continue to occupy an important space in their minds and hearts. Shedding their dignity to humiliate their persecutor may have been wrong because of what it did to the taunters. But, I don't buy that it was really so wrong to humiliate a murderous, evil, sociopath.
Edited on Nov 8, 2011 at 10:41am