It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Mollie Hemingway, Ed. ·
Oct 19, 2011 at 6:55am
From Canada's CBC:
A review is underway at a Niagara Falls hospital after an elderly patient fell at the facility and was told to call an ambulance for help.
Doreen Wallace, 82, fell inside the double doors of the Greater Niagara General Hospital last weekend, breaking her leg and cutting her arm, according to Niagara radio station CKTB.
A security guard asked the ER for help, but was told Wallace would have to phone for an ambulance.
Wallace's son did call 911, but by the time the ambulance arrived a half hour later, his mother had been cared for by a surgeon who was walking by.
Don't worry. The National Health Service apologized later.
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Dec '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Future Slogan for Obamacare Public Service Announcements:
"Here's a quarter - call someone who cares!"
Sep '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
In US case law, I think there is quite a bit of precedent for civil and even criminal liability for this kind of negligence. I'm generally a tort-hawk (I think most lawsuits are at least partially frivolous) but I would fully encourage a massive lawsuit in this case.
Jun '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Their client is the government, and success is measured by accountants. So, they serve their real client first, and then the patient...if they're not busy.
May '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Try suing the government. Good luck.
Apr '11
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
I'm actually a conservative Ontario tort lawyer. What's described above is just Tuesday at any public hospital. Nothing, save the actual fall, would be actionable in Ontario. Heck, she saw a surgeon within thirty minutes. I had to wait nine months to see an orthopaedic surgeon for my own knees, by which time I had self rehabbed them to the point where it seemed pointless to to attend with the specialst. That's the beauty of the system. Costs are controlled by people getting better or dying before medical expenses are incurred.
May '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
The craziest thing is that all this happened inside a hospital!
Sep '11
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Or they've driven to upstate NY or Michigan for care at an American hospital.
Jun '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Chris Deleon
Try suing the government. Good luck. · Oct 19 at 7:34am
You can sue the government, even in Canada, the difference is that you get a 6 month window during which to commence your action as opposed to two years in normal torts.
As for "massive lawsuit" that's an American idea. In Canada you get to put your case before a judge alone or before a judge and a jury. If you put your case before a judge and jury the jury can only find blame (this is a tort), but has no power to declare an award. Only the judge can fix the award. In this case the award would, I'm guessing, range to a maximum of $30,000 and would likely be lower.
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Rules are rules, and everybody must be treated equally under the law. We can't have queue jumping, so there is undoubtedly some rule somewhere defining genuine emergencies as those requiring ambulance transport. Otherwise everyone on the eternal wait list for a new hip would simply limp to the local hospital and then contrive to fall down in the lobby.
The trouble with socialist utopia is that it takes unlimited government power, administered in mind-numbing detail, to patch the propagating fractal-like cracks in the system. The end result in Canada, apparently, being that injuries occurring in hospital require ambulance transport to the same hospital for treatment.
Edited on Oct 19, 2011 at 8:44amAug '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Just a point of clarification, but there is no "National Health Service" in Canada. Hospitals are a responsibility of the provincial level of government. This is a failing of the province of Ontario's health care system.
It would be like blaming the federal US Department of Health and Human Services for the failings of a hospital owned by a state government.
Edited on Oct 19, 2011 at 8:57amOct '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
My mother volunteers in a hospital in Ontario. A couple of years ago a driver for a local prison had a stroke in the hospital parking lot. His passenger, a violent prisoner in orange garb and shackles, had to shuffle back into the hospital, leading/dragging the driver (who had been temporarily blinded) through the halls to Emerg. Not one person stopped them or offered help.
Aug '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
If one was to do a Lexis/Nexis search from the past 25 years or so for Canadian news stories about examples of insanity in Canadian hospitals, you would find that the VAST majority of the stories are about Ontario hospitals.
To be fair, this would be partly explained by the fact that Ontario is the most populous province, and by the fact that Toronto is the news media centre of the country.
But mostly it's because Ontario's government sucks.
Aug '11
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
"They were only following orders."
Jun '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
After reading Dr. Savage, I moved to ask about admitting rules in American ER's.
May '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
I love a good "health system fail" story as much as the next guy, but what particular aspect of this story is unique to universal health care?
Sep '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Appealing, appalling, healing, galling, let's call the whole thing off.
Apr '11
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
"his mother had been cared for by a surgeon who was walking by."
Did they arrest this rouge surgeon for helping someone without the expressed authorization of the government?
Aug '11
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Here in California, illegal aliens who chafe at waiting for hours in emergency rooms have learned that the secret to quick treatment is to call an ambulance - patients who arrive by ambulance get to jump the queue.
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
Mark, when government replaces a component of the civil society with bureaucracy wielding state power, common sense gives way ineluctably to the perverse logic of fairness before the law. Since all have a right to healthcare equally, and since healthcare is consequently in short supply, then all must be equally miserable. By law.
Common sense says that you rush to the aid of someone in need right in front of you, especially at a hospital. But "fairness" dictates that people injuring themselves on hospital premises can't take precedence over those injured at a distant location. Queue jumping and all that. Wouldn't look good in the performance metrics.
May '10
Re: It's Stories Like This That Make "Universal" Health Care Sound Appealing
So George, you're ascribing this to a set of generalized cultural attributes that were created and nurtured indirectly by too much government involvement in healthcare? I guess it's plausible, but I don't think this will convince many people who aren't already against "universal" health care.