Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
The American Episcopalian Church held its General Convention in Indianapolis this week, and it was apparently quite a show. Back in 1970, when the population of this country was considerably smaller, there were three million Episcopalians in our midst. Today, there are only one million. But one thousand of them gathered this year for the debates that took place in its House of Deputies and its House of Bishops.
In the evenings, Jay Akasie reports, they behaved in accord with the stereotype:
General Convention is also notable for its sheer ostentation and carnival atmosphere. For seven straight nights, lavish cocktail parties spilled into pricey steakhouses, where bishops could use their diocesan funds to order bottles of the finest wines.
During the day, he adds, the legislators in the two chambers gathered to discuss
such weighty topics as whether to develop funeral rites for dogs and cats, and whether to ratify resolutions condemning genetically modified foods. Both were approved by a vote, along with a resolution to "dismantle the effects of the doctrine of discovery," in effect an apology to Native Americans for exposing them to Christianity.
I wish that I were making this up, but I am not doing so -- and it looks as if things are going to get worse, for the Episcopalians are on the verge of formalizing what Akasie calls "the reality that many Episcopalians already know: a church in the grip of executive committees under the direct supervision of the church's secretive and authoritarian presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Shori, [which] now set the agenda and decide well in advance what kind of legislation comes before the two houses." I am not myself a republican in ecclesiastical affairs, but it looks as if what Lenin once called "democratic centralism" is going to become the order of the day.
A number of dioceses have withdrawn and are being sued so that Bishop Shori can take control of their assets. The entire delegation from the diocese of South Carolina walked out of the General Convention on Wednesday, which suggests that the South Carolinians will also soon withdraw.
What comes next? Is the Episcopalian church still a Christian church? If so, will it be one in ten years? Can it be saved from itself? Or is it too far gone to be saved?
I have long thought that the Catholic church should establish an Anglican rite. With a tweak or two, the Book of Common Prayer would work rather well. And the music, oh my God, the music? In my days at Oxford -- as a student and, much later, as a visiting fellow at All Souls -- I frequently attended evensong, and nearly always I found it moving.
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Comments:
Dec '10
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Can you provide an example?
Jun '12
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
This reminds me of a joke I read in the Times (the Times in London, not that NYC rag) years ago. A Jehovah's Witness comes to the door. When the resident opens, the JW asks him, "Do you believe in God?" To which the resident replies, "No, I'm C. of E."
Much the same could be told of the American Episcopalian Church.
Edited on July 13, 2012 at 6:33pmSep '10
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
I have long thought that the Catholic church should establish an Anglican rite.
Ahem.
May '11
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
I have long argued that, based purely on Theology, the Episcopalian Church has a very difficult challenge in calling itself a Christian Church (and I would suggest that it cannot persuasively make this claim). Unfortunately, a few other churches (some Lutheran and Presbyterian) are headed down that same path. For the record, I attend a Presbyterian Church; mine is not criticism purely for the sake of criticism. I imagine Mollie would also agree when it comes to the disturbing trends within the Lutheran Church.
Mar '11
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
They're about as faithful to the teachings of Christ as the UU's. Which is to say, not.
No "Church" with John Shelby Spong could really be faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Michael Horn
Can you provide an example? · 7 minutes ago
The masses of William Byrd (who was a Catholic but wrote for Queen Elizabeth).
May '10
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
"I have long thought that the Catholic church should establish an Anglican rite. With a tweak or two, the Book of Common Prayer would work rather well."Isn't that what the Ordinariate is for? Many of the congregation of an Anglo-Catholic church near me in Tunbridge Wells have just crossed the Tiber on that basis. The sad thing is that they no longer have the use of their church building (which had been built as an Oxford-movement mission), and so are now sharing the tiny modern Roman Catholic church in my own village .I do not know how the Ordinariate will work out in this country (I feel the call myself), but amidst my fears, I have a hope that something truly beautiful may be made by God of the current troubles.
Mar '12
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Benedict 16 established the Anglicanorum Ordinariate for parishes and clergy who are repulsed by the drift in the Anglican and Episcopal Churches. It is meeting with success. People want God and what is being offered per the article above doesn't cut it.
The Ordinariate permits the Anglican/Episcopal rite to continue with a very few modifications. The people who worshipped there continue to worship there, using familiar words and phrases in a familiar setting, but they have become Catholic and enjoy seven sacraments.
Edited on July 13, 2012 at 6:44pmRe: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Pseudodionysius:I have long thought that the Catholic church should establish an Anglican rite.
Ahem. · 2 minutes ago
So, while I was laid up in Bethesda, my prayers were answered.
Dec '10
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
When it comes to music, everyone knows Lutherans rule.
I have one word in my defense: Bach.
Jul '12
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
KarlUB: When it comes to music, everyone knows Lutherans rule.
I have one word in my defense: Bach. · 1 minute ago
Lutherans problem is that we taken a lot of hymns written in German, Swedish, etc and poorly translated them into English. Anglicans don't have that problem and it shows.
When I'm traveling far away from Lutheran Churches I go to the Episcopal Church for the music/liturgy and listen to an MP3 of Norman Nagel during the sermon (per Godwhisperer's suggestion.
Nov '10
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
We may disagree with what they do, but to declare them apostates is an act of hubris which no mortal man should take part in. Not even the Pope himself.
May '10
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Just wait a few more years, and then the membership will be so miniscule, a group of rowdy right-wingers from the "muscular" side of the theological continuum will decide to join, swamping the existing membership, and make life unbearable for the two or three bishops who still remain to keep the candles lit. It's the Vanderbuilt scenario.
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
KarlUB: When it comes to music, everyone knows Lutherans rule.
I have one word in my defense: Bach. · 22 minutes ago
It is a powerful word. But consider Byrd.
Mar '11
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
KarlUB: When it comes to music, everyone knows Lutherans rule.
I have one word in my defense: Bach. · 13 minutes ago
George Frideric Handel.
Apr '11
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Paul A. Rahe
Michael Horn
Can you provide an example? · 7 minutes ago
The masses of William Byrd (who was a Catholic but wrote for Queen Elizabeth). · 28 minutes ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNydo5KC3rQ
and Thomas Tallis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtJvtk6EHZE
Mar '11
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Is it hubris when their teachings are in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ, and you want to state the obvious? At just what point can we see they're a spade and go "look, it's a spade"? I'm very much with you on the issue of hubris and who is and isn't a Christian... in fact, I've made a similar argument to yours in another thread. People can interpret bible teachings differently. That's one thing. It's quite another to read a Biblical teaching and go "No, that's just wrong, and modernism is a better way".
Again, let me emphasize, I'm not talking about doctrinal divisions here. Everyone has those. I'm talking about a direct refutation of the teaching of Jesus and his apostles. If you make it official church policy to stand in opposition to those teachings, then how can you call your denomination a Christian church?
Mar '12
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Umbra, the Church was examining positions and declaring certain beliefs as heretical from the early days of the Church. That is because the Church presumably believes certain things, and everything that denies those things cannot be right. When people would abandon those beliefs and move on, they were considered apostate.
One of my acquaintances was a woman who had been Baptist all her life. One day, unexpectedly, she started speaking in tongues. She did not have any idea of what was occurring and went to her Baptist pastor. He explained to her what she was experiencing and told her that Baptists did not permit it.
She was moved to continue and he was moved to direct her to the local Assemblies of God (which is where I met her) , and he did tell her that she was no longer welcome at that Baptist Church. She is apostate to the Baptist position. That is not an act of hubris (pride), that is an act of definition being played out. If Baptists believe that God brought tongues to an end, to Whom should they give their obedience? They obeyed God as best they knew.
Edited on July 13, 2012 at 7:19pmRe: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
Surely, though, there must be some boundary somewhere the crossing of which would put one outside. Whether Bishop Shori and her flock have crossed that boundary or will soon do so is a legitimate question.
Consider the theological adjustments that must be made if one is to accommodate funeral rites for cats and dogs and to apologize for trying to convert pagans in Christians.
I do not know whether to laugh or cry.
Re: Is the US Episcopalian Church Still a Christian Church?
FreeWifiDuringSermon
Paul A. Rahe
Michael Horn
Can you provide an example? · 7 minutes ago
The masses of William Byrd (who was a Catholic but wrote for Queen Elizabeth). · 28 minutes ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNydo5KC3rQ
and Thomas Tallis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtJvtk6EHZE · 7 minutes ago
Yes, I say, Yes, I mean, Yes, I say, Yes.