Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
Thank you, Confucius the OEV, for pointing out this lucid piece by Ron Radosh. He sums up the key question prompted by the GZM debate:
An important issue is now emerging in the conservative constituency. It boils down to the following: Is Islam itself our enemy, and should Americans work to oppose Islam throughout the world; or, is it only radical Islam, what Christopher Hitchens calls Islamofascism and others call Islamism, the enemy we must oppose?
He provides a tour of the opinions, overt or implied, of politicians and prominent observers who have weighed in on the issue since September 11. He notes:
One must also heed what Daniel Pipes wrote some years back, that the real problem is identifying correctly who is and who is not a moderate Muslim. Imam Rauf may not turn out to be one—but that does not mean that moderate Muslims who actively seek influence are not real moderates. “With time,” Pipes wrote, individual Muslims are finding their voice to condemn Islamist connections to terrorism.” He presents many examples which must not be overlooked; yet he too warns that “There are lots of fake-moderates parading about, and they can be difficult to identify, even for someone like me who devotes much attention to this to this topic.” If it is difficult for Pipes, imagine how difficult it is for those of us attempting to make sense of all this from the outside.
I don't agree with every word Radosh writes in this piece, but I agree with almost all of it. His discussion of the Imam Feisal debate is particularly worthwhile. On one point, as I've mentioned here, I disagree--Radosh thinks the plans for the GZM have led to a "divisive and dangerous" debate. Divisive, yes; dangerous, probably not: It is giving rise to pieces like Radosh's, and many others, that are the essence of necessary and useful debate.
A last point--Confucius the OEV noted to me that those less inclined to see Islam as monolithic are often those who have had a lot of exposure to the Islamic world. There are exceptions (Ayaan Hirsi Ali comes to mind), but generally, I think that's true: Someone like me, who lives in Turkey, just can't be persuaded that everyone who calls himself a Moslem believes the word means the same thing--no more than you could be persuaded that everyone who calls himself an American understands that word the same way.
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Comments:
Jun '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
Charles Krakoff..."Islam does need a Reformation, but that gives no more justification to persecute those who reject it than the Christian Reformation did to persecute Catholics."
Do I detect a strawman, Mr. President? Who is persecuting whom, sir? Do you have evidence of Muslims being persecuted in our country? I can sure give you plenty of evidence of Christians and Jews being persecuted by Muslims in other countries. But you know that is such a given that no evidence even needs to be produced.
May '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
It matters enormously whether Imam Rauf is a moderate Muslim, given that our government is presenting him to the world as such, flying him around at taxpayer expense to promote peace and tolerance.
Regardless of immigration policy, Washington must maintain official relationships with domestic and foreign Muslim leaders. It seems crazy to me to suggest that it doesn't matter if we prop up faux-moderates who use their influence to undermine American interests and promote sharia.
Aug '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
This question reduces to, "Is Islam inherently radical?" I don't know the answer to that. Of the billion or so Muslims in the world, how many wish the rest of us ill? One percent? Ten? Fifty, ninety, or ninety-nine? It's really not our place to try to divine the answer, it's their place to show us.
In the same vein, when some Muslim group commits yet another world-class atrocity in the name of their religion, or even perpetrates a mere insult against us like the GZM, it's not really our place to reassure Muslims that we don't think they're all like that, it's their place to reassure us. And frankly, I don't see that happening.
[continued]
Aug '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
[continued]
What do you suppose would happen if some shadowy Christianist group popped up in the Middle East, and started bombing bus stations or Halal markets--or mosques--and boasted to the world that they were killing infidels in the name of Jesus? How do you suppose the Muslim world would deal with such an assault?
Well, actually, it's a trick question. They wouldn't have to deal with it, because we would. We'd squash them like a bug, while apologizing profusely for their crimes. Until that becomes the usual response of the Muslim world for the crimes of their co-religionists, I'll retain my suspicions.
Aug '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
Paul DeRocco: when some Muslim group commits yet another world-class atrocity...it's not really our place to reassure Muslims that we don't think they're all like that, it's their place to reassure us. And frankly, I don't see that happening.
[continued] · Aug 22 at 1:22am
Bingo. I like.
Aug '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
Hello, dear all,
During my last awake moments, I'd like to share with you my answer to Kenneth Kurtz:
" I loathe and principally oppose genocides of any type, anywhere, anytime. That's what my belief dictates me.
Genocide or not, whatever has happened back in 1915 concerns Ottoman officers of the era, NOT the religion Islam.Now, apart from Islamic considerations:
Until the 1915 events, I can say the Armenian and the Turkish lived together on very good terms. Strories about the warm relations between the two communities have been perpetuated by elder Turkish citizens.."
Aug '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
Plus, I must add..
Systems can be perfect, but not humans.
If Kenneth Kurtz puts forth the muslim states' offenses, I could easily mention the Western crimes such as the massacre of Native Americans, Israel's continuous genocide, Spanish conquestadors, Apartheid Regime in South Africa, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, etc.
But hey, that would be entire nonsense. Is that a competition between East and West? Hell, no!!
I intend to discuss principles, not events. Let's please do so..
PS: events should only be meaningful if they have representative authority; as when they are carried out by regulators..
Aug '10
Re: Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
A few weeks ago I read an article on zaman.com.tr about "jet imams"- guys who rush through prayers. The Grand Mufti of Sivas told 'em to knock it off. OK. But then he pointed out that imams in Turkey are "state officials" (I think I'm translating that correctly) and that he would initiate legal action (I'm pretty sure I'm translating that correctly) if they failed to comply with his orders. Foreigners may be weird or crazy or dangerous or none of the above, but what they always are is foreign. I am unclear on the value of a "moderate" Moslem, which for all I know is just a "bored" or "embarrassed" Moslem. If you've got one, so what? How does that help you? He may agree with you on a lot of things, but I suspect it is mostly coincidence - like Turks who happen to like rock'n'roll. They still live in a country where there are unchallenged religious bosses with real legal clout.