Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Websites are abuzz with word that actor Tobey Maguire is being sued over poker games that also saw actors Ben Affleck, Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCarprio at the multi-million dollar gatherings.
Some hedge fund guy was stealing from his clients and using the dough to play against Maguire, who apparently beat the pants off him.
Living in one of the world’s Meccas of gambling (NJ) I know something about “bad beats,” a common gambling phrase meaning a gut wrenching loss. They are part of the game. You’re supposed to take them like a man. You have to be a real punk to sue for your money back after losing it fair and square. I bet if Mr. Hedge Fund Criminal had won and Tobey Maguire wanted his money back, the guy wouldn’t write him a check.
The interesting side issue is that private gambling remains illegal. As noted in the Radar Online article, California rarely uses the law to prosecute people and there is no indication that Maguire or the others will be prosecuted.
Why in the world should betting ever be illegal? The act of betting is not a “mala in se” crime (bad in and of itself) rather it is “mala prohibita” meaning it is a wrong only because the state has decreed, “Don’t do this.”
Perhaps the rational state interest in banning gambling may have been the fear that gains wouldn’t be reported on tax returns, a prohibition that has been about as effective in curbing behavior as alcohol prohibition itself. Were it legal, your neighborhood bookie probably would set up shop and pay taxes.
Another justification for private gambling bans is to protect state-run gambling from competition, but isn’t that repulsive to liberty? I’ll lay odds we would all protest were the government to outlaw Federal Express and UPS to force us to use the Post Office.
The last reason for prohibiting private gambling is some antiquated notion that it is a vice. When it was revealed that Book of Virtues author Bill Bennett had lost $8 million gambling over 10 years, the left hyperventilated about the virtue-crat being caught up in something un-virtuous. He wasn’t. Gambling is entertainment, and all entertainment has a cost.
When I lose $300.00 in a casino, I have friends who cringe like I wasted the money. Then I will point out that they spent $600 the evening before going to a Broadway show and out to dinner. Did they waste $600, or did they spend it doing something they enjoy? Well, so did I! And I’ve never left a Broadway show having won a couple large.
What gall government has anyway in asserting gambling is a vice! Governor Christie picks up huge sums of revenue daily from craps, blackjack, slots, horse racing and the lottery, not to mention that a drive through Camden is a gamble by itself.
Were private gambling really seen by the public at large as a vice, would every newspaper in the country really print the betting spread on sporting events?
I know of no Bible quotes condemning gambling. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
The last (and least) argument is that excesses in gambling can be harmful to families (it can be). So can excesses in eating bacon, but I’m certain states would secede if we were to ban it.
Photo credit roundersmovie.com. A great movie, by the way!
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May '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Agreed. Gambling is only wrong in excess, and even then should not be illegal.
What's really disgusting is when a state which bans gambling hosts a lottery.
Jun '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Mr. Hedge fund should have known... If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.
Edited on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:36amDec '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
I think you nailed it on this one. States do not want private enterprise encroaching on their racket. Unless you're in my state of Washington. The governor, Christine Gregoire, negotiated a great contract with the tribes (who have a monopoly on gaming) in which the state gets nothing from the tribal gaming industry but she got some fantastic campaign contribution from the tribes.
As far as the vice issue, I don't think gambling is a vice in and of itself. Like anything else, moderation is the key. However, gambling seems to be one of those things which are inherently difficult to moderate for some people. If there's a ________ Anonymous for it then the activity falls into that category. However, since alcohol, food, and sex also have such organizations to help people who struggle to moderate, I don't think government intervention is necessarily a great thing. In the interest of consistency, I'd prefer the government not attempt to moderate for people in this either.
Dec '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
P.S. Mmmmm, bacon.
Feb '11
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Aaron Miller: Agreed. Gambling is only wrong in excess, and even then should not be illegal.
What's really disgusting is when a state which bans gambling hosts a lottery. · Jun 23 at 8:32am
Lotteries have to be one of the biggest scams going. They're nothing but a regressive tax bilking many of the same people the proceeds are purported to 'help.' Of course, nothing is too depraved when state coffers are empty from decades of reckless spending.
May '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
It's a frivolous waste of money, like any entertainment. But we like entertainment. Used to be a solid horserace bettor, when I could devote lots of time to it. Time that could've been used for more productive things, but hey, if you make money at it, you don't have a gambling problem; you have a hobby (man, that Sarava-Medaglia D'Oro exacta in the Belmont made $1,600 on a $5 investment. Had to fill out tax forms at the window. Good times, good times...)
What I don't get about Bennett is that he lost $8 million on slot machines, of all the silliness. I mean, if you're gonna drop that much, at least get the VIP lounge. Yikes. Slot machines?
May '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
I don't think you can make that point. All of these actions cost society. Obviously the man's desire to play among the celebrities was one of the primary causes behind his crime of embezzlement. This is not exactly a crime without a victim, in fact there are probably dozens of them.
Earl Grinols, an economist in the Reagan administration, estimates that for every $46 gained in legitimate activity, state-sponsored gaming produces $289 in additional costs to government.
In addition to embezzlement and fraud, gambling increases losses in productivity and work time, increases Social Service Costs in medical treatment (stress-related disorders such as cardiovascular, anxiety, and depression) and legal costs in divorce, separation, and child abuse. And for those of us who detest government it costs each and everyone of us an average of $16 per year to fund state regulation of gambling.
Not mala in se?
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
jrb
Aaron Miller: Agreed. Gambling is only wrong in excess, and even then should not be illegal.
What's really disgusting is when a state which bans gambling hosts a lottery. · Jun 23 at 8:32am
Lotteries have to be one of the biggest scams going. They're nothing but a regressive tax bilking many of the same people the proceeds are purported to 'help.' Of course, nothing is too depraved when state coffers are empty from decades of reckless spending. · Jun 23 at 9:05am
I think it is Rush that says he likes lotteries because it is the only way to collect a tax from the poor.
Jun '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
jrb
Aaron Miller:
What's really disgusting is when a state which bans gambling hosts a lottery. · Jun 23 at 8:32am
Lotteries have to be one of the biggest scams going.
We call lotteries a tax on people who can't do math.
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
EJHill
... gambling increases losses in productivity and work time, increases Social Service Costs in medical treatment (stress-related disorders such as cardiovascular, anxiety, and depression) and legal costs in divorce, separation, and child abuse.
You could be describing Facebook.
Nov '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Well, it's only a crime where it's illegal. Vice and sin are synonyms so that boils things down. Isn't life a gamble if it is merely probabilistic? You pays your money and you takes your chances.
May '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
The state doesn't get to reward exclusive contracts to social media or create state jobs to regulate it. Nor would you embezzle money to post on Facebook. That is a glib way of dismissing and not facing the real costs of legalized gambling.
Your entire contention is the gambling is not intrinsically a bad thing or costly to society as a whole. I would expect a more vigorous defense backed by a factual argument.
May '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
You and your neighborhood bookie still need to report gambling winnings on your tax return even if it is illegal (your neighborhood drug dealer should be reporting those earnings as well).
I agree with Aaron Miller that gambling is only a vice when it is in excess (much like drinking). These activities are vices because most activities in excess are vices not because these particular activities are in excess.
Finally, I think you see gambling made illegal in most states for the same reason public intoxication is illegal in most states. The laws exist to act as a catch-all for the most egregious activities. The police don't raid your personal poker game just like they won't arrest you for quietly walking home from a bar. Here in the Midwest, we see this public policy choice clearly exhibited by the increased number of riverboat casino permits. The prohibition against gambling is not to prevent gambling, per se, but to allow for discretion when prosecuting larger criminal enterprises.
May '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
This is, as it always has been, a ploy by politicians to muscle in on shady activity to grab revenue. They fool themselves into the belief that legitimizing an otherwise bad activity will not increase participation in that activity. Millions of dollars of money are wasted in state-sponsored casinos by folks that would otherwise would never be caught dead in a bookie joint.
It's akin to the idiocy of cigarettes. We spend millions regulating them but won't ban smoking because the state is the one with the biggest addiction. And more and more states have bought into the panacea of gaming to solve budget problems.
Edited on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:53amJul '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Pat in Obamaland:
Finally, I think you see gambling made illegal in most states for the same reason public intoxication is illegal in most states. The laws exist to act as a catch-all for the most egregious activities. · Jun 23 at 9:38am
Not entirely. Here in Texas We can bet on dogs, horses, and lotteries, but not tables or slots. The reason, for the most part, is the "influence" Las Vegas casinos have on Our politicians. Texans spend many millions a year in Vegas.
Feb '11
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Tommy De Seno
I think it is Rush that says he likes lotteries because it is the only way to collect a tax from the poor. · Jun 23 at 9:14am
A bit of humorous hyperbole. States probably collect far more from the poor via alcohol and tobacco taxes.
Samwise Gamgee
We call lotteries a tax on people who can't do math. · Jun 23 at 9:15am
It is not just whether they have the ability. Do primary or secondary schools even teach probability anymore? All it takes is about 10 minutes to demonstrate to even the mathematically disinclined that lotteries are a fool's game. Even if they do, when 50% or more of the graduates from many of New York's 'A' schools need remediation it probably doesn't matter whether the schools teach it or not. Besides, who needs math when the lottery lights are blinking $50,000,000 and all you have to do is buy a ticket?
Aug '10
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
According to some reports, Tobey Maguire was allegedly earning millions per year from these poker games. That goes beyond a friendly local poker game between friends.
Regardless of whether one thinks it should be legalized or not, if Maguire wants to be a professional poker player there ARE legal options for doing so. He could have joined the pro poker circuit in Vegas, Atlantic City, and all the other legal casinos around the country.
Maguire chose instead to host his own secret, illegal games. As such, I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy for him.
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
EJHill
The state doesn't get to reward exclusive contracts to social media or create state jobs to regulate it. Nor would you embezzle money to post on Facebook. That is a glib way of dismissing and not facing the real costs of legalized gambling.
Your entire contention is the gambling is not intrinsically a bad thing or costly to society as a whole. I would expect a more vigorous defense backed by a factual argument. · Jun 23 at 9:31am
Glib? It was a joke brother, not a counter-contention to your point. Who made smiley faces on Ricochet illegal anyway?
We need some kind of funny button.
Feb '11
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Jimmy Carter
The reason, for the most part, is the "influence" Las Vegas casinos have on Our politicians. Texans spend many millions a year in Vegas. · Jun 23 at 9:52am
Where would Harry Reid be today without casino money and unions?
Re: Is Gambling A Vice? A Sin? A Crime?
Pat in Obamaland: You and your neighborhood bookie still need to report gambling winnings on your tax return even if it is illegal (your neighborhood drug dealer should be reporting those earnings as well).
I agree with Aaron Miller that gambling is only a vice when it is in excess (much like drinking). These activities are vices because most activities in excess are vices not because these particular activities are in excess.
Finally, I think you see gambling made illegal in most states for the same reason public intoxication is illegal in most states. The laws exist to act as a catch-all for the most egregious activities. The police don't raid your personal poker game just like they won't arrest you for quietly walking home from a bar. Here in the Midwest, we see this public policy choice clearly exhibited by the increased number of riverboat casino permits. The prohibition against gambling is not to prevent gambling, per se, but to allow for discretion when prosecuting larger criminal enterprises. · Jun 23 at 9:38am
Interesting point.