Carol Platt Liebau · January 8, 2013 at 8:10pm

Last Sunday, the New York Times featured a piece by Susan Jacoby on "The Blessings of Atheism."   It marks yet another milestone in what seems like a concerted effort by non-believers to publicize and validate their beliefs.  Yet (like most such pieces) especially in two particulars, I found it far from convincing.

First, like many atheists, Jacoby dates the advent of her rejection of God to experiencing a terribly sad tragedy befalling a good, innocent person.  But isn't basing disbelief in the divine on such a circumstance really insisting on a pretty narrow, circumscribed view of God as some sort of cosmic Superman -- who must prove His existence by acting in conformity with Susan Jacoby's view of how He should behave? And by insisting that a real God would act in accordance with her standards, isn't Jacoby sort of setting herself up as  God? (This last is a problem with any attempt to establish a non-religious "moral code." Whose morals or standards are to prevail and why?)

Second, Jacoby argues that secular humanists can and should offer a meaningful alternative to religion, by showing up to offer comfort at times of deepest human suffering.  She notes that at the death of a child, an atheist could observe that the child is at rest and will never suffer again. But it strikes me this is actually cold comfort to grieving parents.  After all, presumably the child was not suffering in their care -- and at the core of their grief is the loss of their child's companionship.  Belief in an afterlife and reunion with loved ones therefore provides a sense of hope and solace that atheism simply cannot.

Atheists are certainly entitled to their beliefs.  But it seems to strain a notch to characterize those beliefs as a "blessing." Am I missing something?

Comments:



Joined
Apr '11
John Mason

She is a failed Job.  Perhaps she's never read it.

flownover
Joined
Aug '10
flownover

Great analysis there, "acting in conformity with Susan's...view". 

Brilliant.

But I did chortle when you said that "Atheists are certainly entitled to their beliefs." 

You get what you pray for .

Kevin P
Joined
May '12
Kevin P

Her problem started when she thinks that there actually exists a good, innocent person.
Under Christian Doctrine, there was only one "good, innocent person" who had a tragedy befall them, and that was Jesus.
All other humans are born under the curse of Adam, thus none of us are "good, innocent persons". 

Valiuth
Joined
Apr '11
Valiuth

I read recently about a Atheists in England starting a church. Go figure. The reality is that atheists aren't against religion they are just against religions with deities. They themselves are a nebulous religion of platitudes and scientific superstitions, mixed in with new age philosophies, which are really just poorly understood eastern philosophies. 


Joined
Apr '11
wmartin

Knowing the truth is usually not  a blessing, and atheists shouldn't try  make it sound like one. It seems very obvious to me that there is no such thing as supernatural phenomena, so any "comfort" derived from religion would be akin to a starving man imagining that he is well-fed. But I accept that most people find religion a comfort and that it serves a useful social purpose in that regard.

Stuart Creque
Joined
Dec '10
Stuart Creque

The attitude can be summed up, "God does not exist and I hate Him for it."

Mollie Hemingway, Ed.

Think of all the blessed people in atheist cultures -- the blessed people of the Soviets, for instance.

Stuart Creque
Joined
Dec '10
Stuart Creque
Carol Platt Liebau:  She notes that at the death of a child, an atheist could observe that the child is at rest and will never suffer again. But it strikes me this is actually cold comfort to grieving parents.  After all, presumably the child was not suffering in their care -- and at the core of their grief is the loss of their child's companionship.  Belief in an afterlife and reunion with loved ones therefore provides a sense of hope and solace that atheism simply cannot.

It goes deeper.  The atheist tells the grieving parents, "It's the status quo ante that existed before your child was born: your child no longer exists, and once you and your other children are gone, it will be as though your child never existed.  And eventually, when the Sun reaches the red giant phase and the Earth is vaporized, it will be as though humankind and all life on Earth never existed."

Doesn't give much comfort or hope for the future.

Roberto
Joined
Mar '11
Roberto

Stuart Creque

Carol Platt Liebau:  She notes that at the death of a child, an atheist could observe that the child is at rest and will never suffer again. But it strikes me this is actually cold comfort to grieving parents.  After all, presumably the child was not suffering in their care -- and at the core of their grief is the loss of their child's companionship.  Belief in an afterlife and reunion with loved ones therefore provides a sense of hope and solace that atheism simply cannot.

It goes deeper.  The atheist tells the grieving parents, "It's the status quo ante that existed before your child was born: your child no longer exists, and once you and your other children are gone, it will be as though your child never existed.  And eventually, when the Sun reaches the red giant phase and the Earth is vaporized, it will be as though humankind and all life on Earth never existed."

Doesn't give much comfort or hope for the future. · 1 minute ago

Nonsense. Just throw in something about a reduced carbon footprint and it's practically a psalm.

Edited on January 8, 2013 at 9:21pm

Joined
Apr '11
wmartin

Stuart Creque

It goes deeper.  The atheist tells the grieving parents, "It's the status quo ante that existed before your child was born: your child no longer exists, and once you and your other children are gone, it will be as though your child never existed.  And eventually, when the Sun reaches the red giant phase and the Earth is vaporized, it will be as though humankind and all life on Earth never existed."

Doesn't give much comfort or hope for the future. · 7 minutes ago

But it has the virtue of being true.

Stuart Creque
Joined
Dec '10
Stuart Creque

wmartin

Stuart Creque

It goes deeper.  The atheist tells the grieving parents, "It's the status quo ante that existed before your child was born: your child no longer exists, and once you and your other children are gone, it will be as though your child never existed.  And eventually, when the Sun reaches the red giant phase and the Earth is vaporized, it will be as though humankind and all life on Earth never existed."

Doesn't give much comfort or hope for the future.

But it has the virtue of being true.

If so, it makes one wonder why we worry so much about crime and punishment.  So what if a child is murdered -- or even sexually tortured and then murdered?  The child's death erases any traces of the pain it experienced, and thus we should be indifferent.  Yes?


Joined
Apr '11
wmartin

Well, in the cosmic sense - no, the child's death and suffering do not matter. Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa both went to the same place when they died.  But we don't live cosmically, so even though morality does not actually exist, we still have to live as though it does, for self-protection if nothing else.

Group Captain Mandrake
Joined
Nov '12
Group Captain Mandrake

I agree that the word "blessing" is not the most comfortable choice.  It seems to me that it's being used in the article simply to mean "benefit".  However, the title of the article wouldn't be quite as catchy.

Roberto
Joined
Mar '11
Roberto
wmartin: Well, in the cosmic sense - no, the child's death and suffering do not matter. Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa both went to the same place when they died.  But we don't live cosmically, so even though morality does not actually exist, we still have to live as though it does, for self-protection if nothing else. · 1 minute ago

Why?

If morality is empty and cosmically all is meaningless then why would any philosophy beyond Will to Power be required?

Stuart Creque
Joined
Dec '10
Stuart Creque
wmartin: Well, in the cosmic sense - no, the child's death and suffering do not matter. Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa both went to the same place when they died.  But we don't live cosmically, so even though morality does not actually exist, we still have to live as though it does, for self-protection if nothing else.

Why?

What in the self is worth protecting?  The self is nothing more than a series of electrical impulses generated by chemical reactions.  What "you" perceive as consciousness is an artifact of that physical phenomenon - it is no more permanent nor significant than a rain shower, and a good deal less important than that rain shower to the greater illusion that is the biosphere.

Ted Bundy knew how to enjoy this illusion of life: he manipulated women into his grasp and then used them to gratify his desires.  Nothing wrong with that, given the transitory nature of existence.

Except Ted Bundy oddly was not a perfect atheist.  He struggled desperately to wrangle stays of execution, terrified of what lay on the other side of the veil.  Sort of ironic, eh?


Joined
Apr '11
wmartin

Roberto

wmartin: Well, in the cosmic sense - no, the child's death and suffering do not matter. Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa both went to the same place when they died.  But we don't live cosmically, so even though morality does not actually exist, we still have to live as though it does, for self-protection if nothing else. · 1 minute ago

Why?

If morality is empty and cosmically all is meaningless then why would any philosophy beyond Will to Power be required? · 0 minutes ago

Self-protection. And the fact that our brains evolved with a suite of emotions and drives. These emotions and drives are often nasty but are also often nice.

And...well, most of us are not formidable enough for "will-to-power"  to play a preeminent part in our psyche. People with Napoleon's precise combination of traits are fairly rare. Most of us would just end up like Raskolnikov.


Joined
Sep '12
John Simmons

Please don't assume all atheists treat atheism as a religion. I have never had religion in my life and don't feel a need for it (but I do understand the need for religion in the lives of most human beings.....and I'm not trying to be sarcastic). My parents raised me with essentially religious ideals (treat others as you would want them to treat you, etc.) so I tend to follow them religiously (sarc). I think that the world be probably be a bigger mess without some sort of religion religion,  but not all religions are created equally.

Eric Hoffer;s "The True Believer" had a big impact on my thinking (read it in high school) so I'm wary of all true believers, be they religious or political (for many their specific -ism has replaced religion in their lives).

This should be a far more complex conversation than can be conveyed in a simple response to a blog post anyway.


Joined
Apr '11
wmartin

Stuart Creque

Why?

What in the self is worth protecting?  The self is nothing more than a series of electrical impulses generated by chemical reactions.  What "you" perceive as consciousness is an artifact of that physical phenomenon - it is no more permanent nor significant than a rain shower, and a good deal less important than that rain shower to the greater illusion that is the biosphere.

Ted Bundy knew how to enjoy this illusion of life: he manipulated women into his grasp and then used them to gratify his desires.  Nothing wrong with that, given the transitory nature of existence.

Except Ted Bundy oddly was not a perfect atheist.  He struggled desperately to wrangle stays of execution, terrified of what lay on the other side of the veil.  Sort of ironic, eh? · 1 minute ago

Ted Bundy had the human instinct for self-preservation, so I am not surprised that he tried to wrangle stays of execution, just as I am not surprised that the devout Christian undergoes a last-ditch chemotherapy regimen after the terminal cancer diagnosis.

Just for the record: "Atheist" and "Sociopath" are not synonyms.

Goldgeller
Joined
Aug '11
Goldgeller

It seems to me that the desire for transcendence can never truly go away. 

Crow's Nest
Joined
Mar '11
Crow's Nest

wmartin: But it has the virtue of being true....

...so even though morality does not actually exist, we still have to live as though it does, for self-protection if nothing else.

On the one hand, you praise public atheism for is Truthfulness, which you regard as better than the falsehood of God, however comforting that is. It is too intolerable to you to bear falsehood.

And yet, in the next post you say that: to live, we must live not in accordance with Truth but with morality, which you call a fiction and a lie to anyone in earshot.

Even if we bought all of this for the sake of the argument, why do you suppose that morality will be upheld by everyone who must uphold it to live once they have your "insight" that it is a lie? Why would it not break down and fail as soon as everyone realized that everything was permitted?

If we buy your logic and then think it through to the end, taking into account these likely consequences, then one should never publicly proclaim atheism and should instead appear in every circumstance a completely conventional believer and moralist. And yet you do.


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