In Search of Tolerance
Looking over Mollie Hemmingway's post regarding the admonishment 60 Minutes administered to those of us opposed to the Ground Zero Mosque, I was struck by the continuing theme that those of us who find the project distasteful or offensive are guilty of simple and ignorant bigotry. Who wants to be found guilty of that? Perhaps, if 60 Minutes, the editorial board of the New York Times, and the rest of the DNC, want to find real bigotry, they should broaden their horizons just a tad.
Here's an example. In Pakistan last March, a 38 year-old Christian man was burned alive and his wife raped. Their crime? They refused to convert to Islam.
Or how about this? Kiran George, a Christian maid, was raped by the son of her Muslim employer. When she threatened a lawsuit, her attacker killed her.
However, lest the tolerant people of that region be found guilty of age discrimination, we should not leave out the story of 12 year-old Shazia Bashir, who was murdered by her "employer," a wealthy Muslim lawyer.
For if there is one thing that these practitioners of the 'Religion of Peace' cannot abide, it is an indelicacy. In Punjab, Pakistan, for example, Christian children have been accused of marking a copy of the Koran with ink and chewing gum. Naturally, the locals have sworn death against several Christian families, who have had to go on the run. As the local mosque announced, "It is a matter of respect of Islam." Quite.
So to recap, Christians are murdered and raped for their faith in a predominantly Muslim country, and the media is silent. But if American citizens peacefully express reservations about a mosque at the place where Muslim extremists slaughtered 3,000 innocent human beings, it is the Americans who must be lectured.
How about this: How about 60 Minutes taking their cameras and their stop watch overseas to where ignorant bigotry is a way of life? And how about Imam Rauf taking his little road show and his inter-faith mosque to Muslim countries and practicing some moderation where it is most sorely needed? Again I ask, how is that cathedral in Mecca coming along?
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May '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Mama used to say, "If it's easy, it ain't tolerance."
The people who admonish us about the Victory Mosque seem untroubled by it. So it ain't tolerance.
Jul '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
What is amazing to me is the noticeable silence from the liberal feminist organizations with regards to Islam. And, you know, tens of millions of Muslims.
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Michael, exactly. Their silence speaks volumes.
Sep '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Whoa, Dave, you're mixing apples and semi-trailers.
One story is about defending a leftist point of view and using journolistic tactics of labeling unbelievers in order to control the narrative. If Owe had come out and stated that the mosque should not have been built, most of his good little flock would have gotten in line behind their president.
The other story is about real life that needs to be swept under the rug because it doesn't fit the leftist story about the undertodden Muslims. There are sites like Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs that document the DAILY injustices that are done in the name of the religion of peace. The left closes its eyes to what is going on in Pakistan, Afghanastan and virtually all the Muslim countries. Where's the MSM peice on the boy in Maine who set off the chemical bomb last week? Or that the 6 suspects in the attempting Pope assassination were all Muslim?
You can't look at the MSM and expect to understand it unless you use left-colored glasses.
Jul '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
It's curious that liberals, while bashing their fellow citizens, cravenly obey the fatwas of any Waziristan or other crackpot who decrees that certain subject be placed off limits for discussion. I don't know if they believe that if only they appease enough, there will be peace in our time, or they are simply morally obtuse.
Edited on Sep 27, 2010 at 11:28amRe: In Search of Tolerance
Nice way to make a good point, ConcernedCanadian. I am mixing apples and orange trailers, because the world of shallow denunciations from journalists is so far removed from the real world of honor killings, beheadings, and stonings. Throughout a sizeable part of the world, female genital mutilation is acceptable. The streets may overflow with waves of innocent blood, severed limbs can pile high alongside severed heads, and people who want to worship according to their beliefs can be slaughtered by the bushel. But smudge a Koran and you've gone quite too far. There is a limit to their tolerance, after all. Innocent blood by the gallon, yes. Ink smudges, never! And the media here lectures us? Propriety forbids me to label the left's lectures accurately, but I think you get my drift.
May '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
This speaks to the hole in Claire's argument regarding moderate Muslims in that region, as I see it.
When talking about rampant acts of racism in fairly recent American history, we don't excuse common American citizens for their tolerance of and participation in that intolerance. Then in America, as now in the Middle East, people were afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal or social exclusion. Our society suffered under poor leadership (not just political leadership). But so what? To live nobly requires courage, but we should demand such courage. We should expect people to rise above their circumstances and strive for a better world.
Likewise, though I sympathize with the Muslims living under tyranny, vile leadership and threats, those lowly citizens are not wholly innocent of the bigotry and terrible acts that are so common in their nations. They, like Americans half a century ago, have a moral obligation to strive for justice.
Fear does not justify inaction.
Sep '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Aaron Miller:
Likewise, though I sympathize with the Muslims living under tyranny, vile leadership and threats, those lowly citizens are not wholly innocent of the bigotry and terrible acts that are so common in their nations. They, like Americans half a century ago, have a moral obligation to strive for justice.
Fear does not justify inaction. · Sep 27 at 1:16pm
Aaron, you make the mistake in assuming that they have been taught to strive for justice. It's not in their religion, not in their precious book. All the good parts about aiding your brother are clarified by saying that a brother is someone of your own faith. So people (like Obama) taking quotes from the Koran to prove it is a peaceful religion are getting it wrong.
I fear the only moderate Muslims are the ones who haven't yet acted on what they have been taught for years in the mosque. If you grow up being told that yellow socks are dangerous, then you believe that yellow socks are dangerous.
There is a reason why there is so limited integration into American (or Canadian) society. WE aren't one of THEM.
Edited on Sep 27, 2010 at 2:22pmAug '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Tolerance, as it is understood in its modern political conception, is not one of the great virtues. Its exercise requires many provisoes. My patriotism and commitment to Western, Judeo-Christian Civilization come way before this modern idea of tolerance.
Re: In Search of Tolerance
ConcernedCanadian, I can't dismiss out of hand your concern that moderate Muslims are simply those who haven't yet acted out the more extreme dictums of the faith. That's not to say that there are no moderate or peaceful Muslims. But it does seem that the smaller the percentage of Muslims in a given country, the more moderate they tend to be. The higher the percentage, the less moderate and peaceful, until you reach basket case levels, like Pakistan, Iran, etc. Not very comforting.
Aug '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
This is why categories, lists and their rankings are so important to live, both personally and for our culture. The Theological virtues are the highest, Faith, Hope and the greatest--as St. Paul identifies--Love. Then there are the Cardinal Natural Virtues: Prudence, Justice, Temperance and Fortitude. Then there is a list of assorted, lesser natural virtues. Throw into that mix the Gifts of the Spirit and the Fruits of the Spirit, the Beatitudes, the Corporal and the Spiritual Works of Mercy, Ecclesiastic Precepts and--Whew--the Positive Law of our Constitution and laws of our states. This systematic fusion of the best of Greek and Christian philosophy will do me just fine for me. It is more than enough for this sorry example of moral man to practice. It had better do for all of us real fast--or we will all suffer.
Sep '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
I didn't mean to imply that all Muslims are potential suicide bombers, although it might have come out that way. What I meant to imply was that the foundation of US and THEM and even US against THEM is a basic tenet of their teaching.
Your comment about smaller groups of Muslims seeming to be more moderate just speaks to the level of integration. Smaller groups need to assimilate more, just like any group of people. The bigger the group, the easier it is for extreme elements to push the less friendly portions of the Koran.
Sep '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
I've worked with a number of Muslims over the years and my neighbor is a Muslims who has lived here for years. I've never suspected any of them of being extreme or dangerous and don't treat them any different than anyone else.
I recently moved back into the neighborhood I grew up in, just outside of Montreal, and I find quite a bit of Muslims here. I'm not bothered by them, although they do tend to be standoffish. It took over a month to get my neighbor to acknowledge my hellos. I just don't think of people in terms of us and them.
On the other hand, this summer there were 5 Muslims arrested in Ottawa on conspiracy to do naughty things and it turns out the one thing they have in common is that they all attended a mosque about 5 miles from here. Great.
Aug '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
ConcernedCanadian
I didn't mean to imply ...
We do not have to "fight" "them" so much as we simply need to work on being who we are: American, Western, mostly Christian, secure and proud of our identity and eager to extend this reality that we are a Christian nation (that happens to be capable of cherishing and protecting its minorities because we love in a very serious, heroic way). Christianity, properly understood, is so attractive, no one openly disposed, absent unnaturally acquired impediments, can resist--whatever their starting place. Christianity (especially a certain branch of Christianity in my humble opinion) is so attractive that when presented one human being to another, one realizes that Christianity is not so much about proselytizing or converting to a religiosity or formula, but rather it is about discovering you really always were, are and can be. That's all. It is the most sophisticated, liberating, adaptive, empowering, macho, intellectual, explorative, enlivening thing one can do...it is just "dern right fun." This’ll beat all those other religions every time. (Besides, in my branch you can go have a great glass of wine or beer to celebrate.)
Edited on Sep 27, 2010 at 8:55pmAug '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Put simply, America's so-called secular folks aren't going to "solve" the Muslim "problem." To repeat a point I made last month about the secular Civil Fiction, secularism is not a thing to believe in. In a sense, it is not a thing--at least in a way comparable to, say, Christianity. Secularism is merely a procedural game Christians of different denominations play among each other to make life in the marketplace and political sphere pleasant. We have even worked out an accommodation that rather smoothly allows for the inclusion of Jews into this polite interactive life together (though some Jewish Americans do not seem to like this accommodation for some peculiar reason). So, I have no hope that there is a "center-right" solution. “Center-right” just means, usually in my experience, Constitutional and fiscal conservative of some stripe with openness to abortion and "gay" nonsense. I even reject the silly notion of a linear ordination between “right” and “left” with “center-right” (self-center-righteously) in the middle. But, back to my point, try as you will, this flawed version of secularism is not going to hold its own against Islamicism. See ya'll tomorrow!
Edited on Sep 27, 2010 at 8:57pmRe: In Search of Tolerance
Excellent points, David.
Sep '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
David, your point is that we can't fight Islam, we just need to make sure we don't cede any ground by affirming our beliefs and our identity. I think you have summarized the situation perfectly.
I'll have to think on your secular position because I hadn't thought of it that way. "Secularism as a procedural game that Christians play." Interesting. I see some truth in that but...
Aug '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
ConcernedCanadian: David, your point is that we can't fight Islam, we just need to make sure we don't cede any ground by affirming our beliefs and our identity. I think you have summarized the situation perfectly.
I'll have to think on your secular position because I hadn't thought of it that way. "Secularism as a procedural game that Christians play." Interesting. I see some truth in that but... · Sep 28 at 4:20am
Dave and ConcernedCanadian, yes, fighting Islam with guns will be futile if we have not regained the unifying elements of what made Western Civilization in the first place and what enabled it to fend of attempted Islamic intrusions in the past. Under the present conditions of western depravity and with Center-rightism! emblazoned on our breastplates, it will be like batting at the ocean waves with a sword in vain hope of stopping the tide.
Sep '10
Re: In Search of Tolerance
So now you're saying that Beck's Restoring Honor rally was really just a battle plan to combat Muslims?
I'm only half joking. In reality, getting back people back in touch with their religion would solve many of our society's problem and Beck's message was simply that. I am in total agreement.
Re: In Search of Tolerance
Excuse me, but isn't that what a fundamentalist Muslim would say? Please, can we push back against a Fundamentalist religion without requiring people to convert to our own? There are plenty of non-adherent people working against Sharia law, because it violates modern human liberties. The most successful atheist going right now, Christopher Hitchins, comes to mind. And I have been unfortunately been present at lectures by left-leaning clergy that all but condemned the rest of us for having any issue with Islam. Yes, let's embrace all that is good in Western Civilization and be proud of it, instead of ashamed as the far left would have us be. But let's not ram religion down people's gullet.