Immigration Through Marriage
I am a first-generation immigrant who married an American. I live in the greater Miami area. This part of the country is very Latin. You can find the largest populations of Cubans, Venezuelans, Argentinians, Colombians, and Brazilians in the United States, in addition to many more.
And the unwritten secret is - if you come from Latin America and want to stay in the United States-- find a Cuban to marry. I know at least 10 individuals (not couples) who have "fake" married to get a green card.
Then, there is the case of Hope Hall, a US military veteran, as reported in Reason.com:
Hope Hall, an American citizen and military veteran, and her Canadian partner and soon-to-be wife Nathalie Gaulthier, who runs an internationally renowned circus arts school and has spent 17 years living and working in the U.S. Though marriage is often the one reliable path to citizenship for many straight couples, the Defense of Marriage Act prohibits United States Immigration and Citizenship Services from granting the same legal rights to gay couples, even those married in a state where gay marriage is legal.
So, my question to you is, wouldn't it make more sense to allow all adult citizens to just sponsor a limited number of people for American citizenship?
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Apr '12
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Great. They can remake the movie Green Card with lesbians.
Oct '12
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
I am a young American man teaching English at a university in China. I have had more dates in the two months since I got here than I had in the previous year in America. Sometimes I wonder if the Chinese girls like me for me or if they just want to go to the United States. Once I get serious about one of my many girlfriends I will explain to her the immigration and naturalization laws of America. If she does not want to marry me for me, then I'll give her her walking papers.
On an unrelated note, I teach Communist Party officials American culture and conversational etiquette every Friday night. I showed them anti-Romney e-mails and fund-raising e-mails that Stephanie Cutter sends me, and they can't believe how dirty and corrupt American politics is. Irony overload! LMAO
Apr '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Foxfier
The problem happens when they don't want to escape it and instead bring it over here; Victor Davis Hanson's ongoing series illustrates what happens.
The point of the immigration system isn't to invite in everyone who lives in a worse place, it's to have good Americans. America is great because we have good Americans; dilute that into a bunch of gimmies, and things go down hill. · 6 minutes ago
I don't agree. America is great because we are a self-governing, free peoples. (Note the plural.) Who desires freedom is a good American, and they want to come here. By and large, people who don't like freedom don't come here.
I know good americans in Mexico and India and even in the UK. These people were just born in the wrong country. They want their rights respected.
If I accept your claim that our immigration system ought to promote entry by "good americans" (whatever that means beyond loving liberty), then a regime of restrictions fails the test. The current system selects for nothing but endurance. The alternatives I outline above are both more humane and cheaper.
Mar '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
(1) life is not fair;
(2) it would be better, in my opinion, to do away with "automatic" naturalization of individuals who marry Americans. Instead, an "automatic" resident alien card could be issued to the foreign spouse and he or she would have the option of continually renewing it every few years, or of undertaking the "normal" path to naturalization;
(3) for those who think this is not fair, see point (1).
Apr '12
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Jeff-
your unsourced claims in #15 would actually indicate that the current system is doing an alright job, although it needs tightening up-- one in ten born to legal immigrants cannot speak English, in spite of over a decade of education?
That said, I'm not going to explain to you that it takes to be a good American; you're clearly just looking to make more oratorical stands, since your speech was in response to inconvenient information.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
One side note, diseases. Screen extensively and deny entry for health challenged or communicable individuals. The UK has been undone by Somali aids patients.
Sep '10
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Jeff what you would create is a second class citizen that will be removed in less than a year with a decision by the Supreme Court based on the 14th amendment.
The tale of the world is that people will choose to let somebody else take care of them in exchange for freedom.
Unrestricted immigration will hasten this nation's demise.
This country only recently was opened to massive immigration. We have only moved further towards the statism since. Nor are we safer.
A better solution would be one that matches the Swiss system. They love liberty and are quite frankly much more free than we are now.
Ultimately I think it should be done on a year to year basis where if no bill is passed no immigration happens.
Every year determine which countries we are to receive immigrants from and how many we want.
Edited on October 12, 2012 at 2:43amJul '10
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Barkha Herman:
So, my question to you is, wouldn't it make more sense to allow all adult citizens to just sponsor a limited number of people for American citizenship? · · 3 hours ago
This is an interesting idea Barkha, how do you imagine it working in practice? Presumably, many Americans would have no one to bring over; do you suppose businesses would purchase the unused immigration "vouchers" to bring in workers? How much utility would that have for businesses that actually followed labor laws?
(None of those are rhetorical questions)
I guess I could support something like that, depending upon several factors. For one, I would want an annual cap on immigrants since I doubt we could integrate, say, 250 million people in a year. Also, I'd want any sponsors to be legally liable for bad acts committed by those they sponsored for at least a few years.
And Barkha, you forgot to tie in the drug war and the GWOT.
Anyway, fun, provocative thread. More please.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Foxfier
There's nothing elaborate involved in looking at a lesbian military vet and her girlfriend and thinking, "hey, they might be activists." Especially if the girlfriend haslived and worked here for nearly two decades and is only know going "ooh, hey, citizenship sounds interesting."
Has she not bothered to get a green card? If, as reported, she runs such a great circus in Cali, should be a slam dunk. Does she have one? Then why hasn't she used the existing route?
If you follow the link - you'll see that the "other pathway" is so archaic that this woman cannot get a green card - only work permits renewed every two years?
No - the immigration law is warped.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Sweeale - thanks for sharing the story. This is exactly what I am talking about. My cousin worked for Novell In India. They brought him over - because he was their top Project Manager there. He was married. His wife could not come over for two years because of paper work. In the mean time, I knew men and women from Latin america that were able to marry Cubans and stay here - despite the fact that they were here on a Visitor's visa.
Also, illegal immigrants, under the Regan amnesty were able to get green cards immediately while this young couple stayed separated.
This is the mockery of the current immigration system. This is why we need to simplify it.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Agreed!
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Foxfier
The point of the immigration system isn't to invite in everyone who lives in a worse place, it's to have good Americans. America is great because we have good Americans; dilute that into a bunch of gimmies, and things go down hill. · 3 hours agoThe problem happens when they don't want to escape it and instead bring it over here; Victor Davis Hanson's ongoing series illustrates what happens.
That is more a symptom of a welfare state than immigration. A work permit program for anyone WHO WANTS TO WORK might fix those issues. Instead we have legal immigrants suffer while illegals get all the benefits. It's because we reward immigrants "of the wrong kind" - and I am not talking brains here but the willingness to work.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
DocJay
How so? I thought I was being squishy.
Edited 3 hours ago
Fortunately, the United States is still the number one destination for most immigrants, the "right" and the "wrong" types...
However, it may not remain so for long. The welfare state encourages their own set of problems with immigration. I know that everyone from a commonwealth country would rather immigrate to the US while they are young and earning. However they would rather immigrate to the the UK when they are ready to retire. NIH is the reason. While Hollywood makes movies like "Marigold Hotel" - where retirees move out of UK to India. But that is not reality.
The reality is that we attract what we encourage. And immigration is moving towards encouraging not workers.
While deserving people like Nathalie have no pathway towards citizenship - unless they are willing to lie.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Jeff: Most immigration restrictions should be abolished outright. People want to better themselves, and they believe they can do it here. Let them try.
3. 90% of second-generation immigrants speak fluent English. Areas with high immigration are the most culturally productive. Alternative: condition admittance on an English fluency exam, a cultural literacy test, etc.
4.Immigrants from statist countries will not vote away our freedoms. Alternative: allow immigrants to work and live, but don't allow them to vote for a decade or so.
The usual arguments against free immigration fail. Even if you believe them, there are better alternatives than restrictions. · 4 hours ago
I actually had to study for my immigration "test". It turned out to be a joke - but in reality I knew more about United States founding and politics than most of the "Man on the Street" interview (and in some cases comments from MSNBC hosts) illustrate Americans know :-D.
But you know - I am special. I read Benjamin Franklin autobiography almost as ardently as Stan Lee comic books.
Apr '12
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Barkha Herman
Foxfier
Has she not bothered to get a green card? If, as reported, she runs such a great circus in Cali, should be a slam dunk. Does she have one? Then why hasn't she used the existing route?
If you follow the link - you'll see that the "other pathway" is so archaic that this woman cannot get a green card - only work permits renewed every two years?
Which link do you mean?
The green card one has an option for investors/entrepreneurs who are making an investment in an enterprise that creates new U.S. jobs and, after five years, application options for citizenship. (Takes a grand total of ten jobs.)
If, on the other hand, she had no interest in legally moving here full time before now, then that argues rather strongly towards this being an act.
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
@FoxFier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKqrx3yT7jY&list=UU0uVZd8N7FfIZnPu0y7o95A&index=10&feature=plcp
Really, this is not so much about DOMA (from my perspective) as it is about the way immigration laws are run in this country....
Jul '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Palaeologus
(None of those are rhetorical questions)This is an interesting idea Barkha, how do you imagine it working in practice? Presumably, many Americans would have no one to bring over; do you suppose businesses would purchase the unused immigration "vouchers" to bring in workers? How much utility would that have for businesses that actually followed labor laws?
I guess I could support something like that, depending upon several factors. For one, I would want an annual cap on immigrants since I doubt we could integrate, say, 250 million people in a year. Also, I'd want any sponsors to be legally liable for bad acts committed by those they sponsored for at least a few years.
And Barkha, you forgot to tie in the drug war and the GWOT.
Anyway, fun, provocative thread. More please. · 2 hours ago
I am just thinking out aloud. As I mentioned, I clearly benefited from the "immigration through marriage" - but I would do fine under current immigration laws anyways.
Ricochetti as a community is so much wiser than my musing - so I am sure we'll crack this nut, collectively.
Apr '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Foxfier: Jeff-
your unsourced claims in #15 would actually indicate that the current system is doing an alright job, although it needs tightening up-- one in ten born to legal immigrantscannot speak English, in spite of over a decade of education?
That said, I'm not going to explain to you that it takes to be a good American; you're clearly just looking to make more oratorical stands, since your speech was in response to inconvenient information. · 3 hours ago
I really can't understand your point in the last paragraph. You complained about an unsourced claim and then made one yourself in the same sentence. I believe this is sophistry, which I think might be the concept you are reaching for in that last paragraph.
First generation immigrants often struggle to learn English. But, it doesn't matter much. First generation german immigrants from the late 1800s and early 1900s didn't learn English. Yet, germans became the backbone of America, it's largest ethnic group, and the largest portion of the middle class.
Second generation immigrants value English, and they learn it.
Come on, the arguments for immigration restrictions don't withstand economic or historical scrutiny.
May '10
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Unfortunately it is all too common.
A Hispanic friend was casually mentioning to me that he was helping an acquaintance move. She had married an American, but now that her status was established, she said she could finally divorce him. It didn't sound like he was in on the fraud-- she fooled him as well. My friend spoke of this as though it were the most normal thing in the world, as I tried to restrain myself.
In this case, not only is the country being defrauded, but the worst part is this American guy who is having his life ripped apart.
I don't agree with unlinking immigration from marriage-- I know multiple "international" couples who live here happily and honestly. But at the very least the immigration officers should look harder for fraud, and there should be a much longer period during which a divorce means automatic revocation of any immigrant status.
Apr '11
Re: Immigration Through Marriage
Aelreth: you would create [...] a second class citizen that will be removed in less than a year with a decision by the Supreme Court based on the 14th amendment.
The tale of the world is that people will choose to let somebody else take care of them in exchange for freedom.
Unrestricted immigration will hasten this nation's demise.
Not so fast. Not really. And, not so.
The Court subjects the federal government to less scrutiny when discriminating against resident aliens than it does the states. If there is a "legitimate state interest" it has been upheld. Would future courts rule this way? I don't know. And there you have a good point.
Freedom entails the right to not take care of someone. And, all of the policies I mentioned would enshrine that right in statutory law.
Unrestricted immigration of germans, irish and italians catapulted this country into leadership of the modern world.
With liberty, immigrants are a boon to this country. Without liberty, even closed borders won't help you. Ask North Korea.