If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
So, which is it--is Salim Mansur a radical, or is he not a Moslem? He seems to be saying what needs to be said more forthrightly than, say, 95 percent of the American professoriat.
The resuscitation of anti-Semitism in Europe, and to some extent in North America, comes in the guise of anti-Zionism and support for Palestinian rights. In other words, it feeds upon the wretched snobbery of the utterly barren and broken world of Arabs and Muslims.
However anti-Semitism is revived and whatever its sociological origin, Israel is surrounded by, at best, mediocre nations and leaders, such as Iran's Ahmedinejad with his evil grin, who brazenly broadcast their anti-Jew bigotry.
In such circumstances the remarkable fact is how open, normal and fun-loving Israelis are living under the shadow of an evil that refuses to die, or leave them alone.
What hypocrites demand of Israelis and the scrutiny Israel is subjected to by them, they would not dare make of any other nation.
It is the fallen nature of the world that makes of Israel a light unto nations confounding anti-Semites endlessly.
Salim Mansur says "Islam is my private life, my conscience ... " Are you really prepared to look at him and say, "No, it cannot be, you're deluded, that's not what the Koran says?"
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May '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
"living under the shadow of an evil that refuses to die, or leave them alone".
Wow. That is the kind of courageous conviction we need to hear from other Muslims before we take them seriously about wanting to co-exist peacefully.
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Magnificent.
May '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Moderate Islam isn't a contradiction in terms if its made to be synonymous with civilized or subdued Islam. If the definition of moderate Islam is, in essence, a "philosophy based upon the teachings of the Koran and of the Prophet Muhammad, with all of scriptural advocacy of violent aggression against others omitted," then moderate Islam is a legitimate concept. Otherwise, Mr. Mansur is an usually erudite and honest individual. He's a moderate Muslin, which is to say a westernized Muslim.
May '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Why not? I guarantee he could not have formed such wonderful conclusions in the bit of his article you quoted - from the Koran. Mansur seems to me to be at an stage where his Islam has severely atrophied, no doubt a result of his Western education. He reminds me of the deists among the Founders; they were believers in god but contemptuous of organized religion and its adherents.
Aug '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
We can hope that there are many more like him, and I think there are. He's a courageous and spiritual man. But as in any other community, religious or not, a small number of sociopaths can terrorize and dictate to large majority. The 'Islam uber alles' conflict won't be settled until a large amount of blood is spilled, Muslims see the results of their inaction and 'pride', and the walls of fear and denial come down.
Jul '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
There are many brave moderate Muslims who can hardly get any coverage in the Western media. For instance, try getting Tarek Heggy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarek_Heggy) on one of the channels or major speaking engagements, and you shall see. A moderate Muslim is not one who appears moderate while having the same radical jihadist ideology. A moderate Muslim keeps his religion in his/her personal sphere just as Salim Mansur says: "Islam is my private life, my conscience..." On the other hand, self-acclaimed moderates - imam Rauf, Tareq Ramadan, Fethullah Gulen and people like them - not only get most of the coverage, but also advise the White House and many think-tanks.
Jun '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Excellent job, Claire. You found one. Don't give up the search, there must be a few more around somewhere.
The best thing we, as Americans, can do to support Salim Mansur and to help turn his few into multitudes, is to be courageous and confidant and proud of our own culture. We don't expect Turkey to become, culturally, like America. In Turkey, the Muslim can practice his faith in any way his culture and political environment allow. If he wishes to come to America, it should be absolutely clear to all Muslims, do not bring sharia with you. That is a line in the sand that cannot be crossed. That is true tolerance. We respect your laws and customs in your country, you respect ours in our country.
Tolerance must be a two way street. Muslims have been free to build mosques, worship, and live in this country at all times and anywhere. This GZM is not just a simple mosque. This is a colossal symbol to anyone who is not a stupidly naive multiculturalist. Mosques are not welcoming to multi faiths. We must demand reciprocal tolerance of Muslims.
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
cdor, I have enough love for the Turkish people to have zero tolerance for anyone who would impose sharia on them. And everyone--please listen to Okan's hugely important point about the media giving no play to the moderates, who are generally not as media-savvy as the faux-moderates precisely because they are not political, not sophisticated, have no idea how to hold a press conference, are not interested in proselytizing, and more often than not just ordinary people who are struggling to get by.
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Don't dismiss the significance of the ideological alliance between radical Islam and the Left, either. Imam Feisal is a Leftist, which makes him an easy sell in the media. Moslems who say the sorts of things Salim Mansur does are just not that popular among journalists who don't agree--and that is, unfortunately, all too many.
Jul '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
I'll believe in Moderate Islam when any taxi driver in New York City or Minneapolis will pick up me and my dog.
May '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
I'm always skeptical of anyone who describes religion as a purely private matter. If one's faith is deep, regardless of the religion, then it affects one's voting decisions and a variety of other actions in society. True faith can never be relegated to one's private life alone.
Mansur said that he is "first and most importantly a Canadian". Well, I am a Christian before I am an American. That does not make me a poor American or inconsiderate of non-Christians. I would be more impressed by a Muslim who is publicy devout and a good citizen because of it, as good Christians and Jews can be.
We should be willing to praise God/Allah overtly in public. God is personal, not a mere thing, so it matters when we talk as if His presence doesn't matter. Public praise and prayers do not make a theocracy. Our nation was founded with such public acknowledgement of God.
But I am grateful for Mansur's deeds.
Aug '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Claire Berlinski: Don't dismiss the significance of the ideological alliance between radical Islam and the Left, either. Imam Feisal is a Leftist, which makes him an easy sell in the media. Moslems who say the sorts of things Salim Mansur does are just not that popular among journalists who don't agree--and that is, unfortunately, all too many. · Aug 17 at 6:51am
I suspected this.
What I've noticed tutoring in my Large Metropolitan Area is that what most muslimas (what the girls call themselves, and I notice the girls more than the boys) I've met seem most concerned about is becoming a pharmacist, doctor, accountant, or real-estate agent. (Naturally, I see a self-selected crowd -- ambitious kids who have their family's blessing to succeed).
It wouldn't surprise me if some were secretly radical and hiding it well. But... not all of them, not even the hijabis.
What they seem like is mostly... hopelessly bourgeois... Exactly what the Left finds uninspiring -- no more appealing than Baptists, really. They're also too busy succeeding American-style to put on histrionics.
The real moderate Muslims aren't ideologically satisfying to the media, I guess.
May '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
If people refuse to countenance the possibility of moderate Islam, they make it almost inevitable that those devout persons who are of moderate inclination have no place to go other than to extremes.
I have moderate Muslim friends, and though I earnestly wish that they would see the light of Christianity as I see it, they are still my friends no matter what as long as they wish to be.
May '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
I agree with Duane. The important question isn't, "are there Muslims who reject the portions of their religion that demand aggression towards and second-class status for infidels?" Everything we know about human nature says there must be, regardless of how Islam's leaders might cast them as outsiders.
The important questions are: how many influential Muslims would agree with Salim Mansur, and how do we help the Mansurs of the world get their message out? Claire, have you thought about making some sort of database for the statements of classically liberal Muslims, as a resource media-professed "moderates" could be measured against?
Jul '10
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Moderate Muslim is a contradiction in terms. Put simply, one cannot hold the Koran and the Hadiths at the heart of one's religious belief and be moderate. Bellicosity and hatred for the infidel are central to Islamic scripture. Fanatical reverence for a "prophet" who preached violence and reveled in murdering hundreds of captives with his own hand is in no way "moderate".
Study the Armenian genocide. Most Armenians thought their Muslim neighbors were moderate people. But when called to the slaughter, those same neighbors enthusiastically committed acts of sadistic savagery against their Armenian "friends".
Islam teaches its adherents to engage in Al-taqyya - striking a deceptive pose until the time is right to engage in jihad. But who doubts that many, many "moderate" Muslims in the West, as they practice Al-taqyya, are actually waiting patiently for the imposition of Sharia and the restoration of the Caliphate?
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Love it that you've remembered to use the term "classically liberal;" that warms my heart. I'm planning to write an article about the subject soon, yes. Maybe not a database. We help get the message out by insisting that their voices be heard; complaining when the media overlooks them in favor of supposed moderates who aren't, and not denying their very existence, because that perfectly reinforces the propaganda of their enemies--and ours. Every time someone insists there is only one way to interpret the Koran, they're endorsing the al-Qaeda line. That message, endlessly reinforced, will become self-fulfilling.
Re: If "Moderate Islam" is a Contradiction in Terms, How do You Explain This?
Jason Hart:
The important questions are: how many influential Muslims would agree with Salim Mansur.
Common-sense answer: Not nearly enough. But I suspect we'll see more. Good has a way of triumphing over evil in the end, because goodness is good. It's more appealing than evil. And the West and its noblest ideals are very seductive. The more self-confident we are as a culture and the more we passionately and lovingly defend the ideal of goodness, the more likely it is that our ideas will spread.
There are innumerable ordinary Moslems who aren't opinion leaders or intellectuals and who wouldn't be able to articulate a strong position on any of these issues who nonetheless are not full of hate and wouldn't dream of harming someone like me--I know because I call them "my neighbors." They just need better leadership, more books, and a more open press and they'll be fine.