The King Prawn · Nov 16, 2011 at 10:14pm

Perry's new ad. He actually calls Obama's policies socialist. I guess the truth is easier to speak when you have nothing to lose.

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Illiniguy
Joined
Mar '11
Illiniguy

Otter:  "Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
Bluto: "We're just the guys to do it. "

Sorry, but I'm just in a goofy mood.

Edited on Nov 16, 2011 at 2:05pm
katievs
Joined
May '10
katievs

I like the ad.


Joined
Apr '11
James Of England

"If Congress balks, cut their pay and send them home"? No one else finds this promise terrifying? Combined with a policy paper promise to remove life tenure from judges and kick the bad ones out? It's not often that I gasp at a 30 second ad for its substance, but.... wow!

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn
James Of England: "If Congress balks, cut their pay and send them home"? No one else finds this promise terrifying? Combined with a policy paper promise to remove life tenure from judges and kick the bad ones out? It's not often that I gasp at a 30 second ad for its substance, but.... wow! · Nov 16 at 3:39pm

I'm all for congress going home, paid or not. Heck, I'd pay them to stay home actually. We already have way more laws and regulations than we can reasonably keep up with. Every time they're in session they want to do something, but they've done enough already. Stop helping me, congress, really. It kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend once. I called him to tell him of my latest theological revelation. He stopped me about half way through the spiel and said, "You already know more than you can ever do. Pick one verse and perfect it." I'd rather have a government that does a very few things well than a government that does almost everything and does it all very poorly.


Joined
Feb '11
david foster

He's not really a socialist, his leanings are more toward economic fascism aka corporatism or crony capitalism.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn
david foster: He's not really a socialist, his leanings are more toward economic fascism aka corporatism or crony capitalism. · Nov 16 at 4:30pm

Socialism and fascism are just different slices of the same pie. Beneath the crust it's still the same sludge. Both advocate the collective over the individual. Neither is compatible with the American founding.

John Marzan
Joined
Oct '10
John Marzan

raissawriter Obama invited Aquino to the US on his re-election year. Mmmm.


Joined
Apr '11
James Of England

The King Prawn

I'm all for congress going home, paid or not. Heck, I'd pay them to stay home actually. We already have way more laws and regulations than we can reasonably keep up with. Every time they're in session they want to do something, but they've done enough already. Stop helping me, congress, really. It kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend once. I called him to tell him of my latest theological revelation. He stopped me about half way through the spiel and said, "You already know more than you can ever do. Pick one verse and perfect it." I'd rather have a government that does a very few things well than a government that does almost everything and does it all very poorly. ·

Even assuming that Perry's proposals are all awesome, and even assuming that Congress is filled with terrible people, conditioning their pay and attendance on not "balking" at Perry's policies is a constitutional nightmare. Combine it with greater control over judges and you're going further than FDR did. I don't want a dictator, even if elected, even if awesome.


Joined
Apr '11
James Of England

The King Prawn

david foster: He's not really a socialist, his leanings are more toward economic fascism aka corporatism or crony capitalism. · Nov 16 at 4:30pm

Socialism and fascism are just different slices of the same pie. Beneath the crust it's still the same sludge. Both advocate the collective over the individual. Neither is compatible with the American founding. · Nov 16 at 4:40pm

Similar, but not the same. In Obama's case, though, there are influences from both. Single payer, his preferred healthcare outcome, for instance, is socialist rather than fascist.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn

James Of England

The King Prawn

david foster: He's not really a socialist, his leanings are more toward economic fascism aka corporatism or crony capitalism. · Nov 16 at 4:30pm

Socialism and fascism are just different slices of the same pie. Beneath the crust it's still the same sludge. Both advocate the collective over the individual. Neither is compatible with the American founding. · Nov 16 at 4:40pm

Similar, but not the same. In Obama's case, though, there are influences from both. Single payer, his preferred healthcare outcome, for instance, is socialist rather than fascist. · Nov 16 at 7:05pm

If you step the philosophy back to first principles you end up at the same thing, i.e. individual liberty is the problem.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn

James Of England

 

Even assuming that Perry's proposals are all awesome, and even assuming that Congress is filled with terrible people, conditioning their pay and attendance on not "balking" at Perry's policies is a constitutional nightmare. Combine it with greater control over judges and you're going further than FDR did. I don't want a dictator, even if elected, even if awesome. · Nov 16 at 7:04pm

I don't want a dictator either, but how do we rein in congress? How do we regulate the regulators?

We fought then for what we are contending for now--to prevent an arbitrary deprivation of our property, contrary to our consent and inclination. I shall be told in this place that those who are to tax us are our representatives. To this I answer, that there is no real check to prevent their ruining us. There is no actual responsibility. The only semblance of a check is the negative power of not reëlecting them. This, sir, is but a feeble barrier, when their personal interest, their ambition and avarice, come to be put in contrast with the happiness of the people.

Patrick Henry, 9 June 1788


Joined
Apr '11
James Of England

I think that a single axis "liberty" criterion for judging policy would put socialism and fascism in different places, roughly corresponding to Ambassador Jean Kirkpatrick's authoritarian and totalitarian states. A binary liberty criterion would not, but I don't think that that's a terribly helpful heuristic tool.

In terms of reigning in congress, I really don't think that there's any substitute for electoral fights of the kind we've had since 1788 for the House and 1914 for the Senate. I was born in a country without checks and balances (thank you, Churchill & the Parliament Acts), and don't want to see it happen in America. The Constitution really is the world's finest. Messing with it might improve it, but the odds don't seem to be favorable.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn
James Of England: The Constitution really is the world's finest.

And if we adhered to it we wouldn't have most of the problems we face today.

Illiniguy
Joined
Mar '11
Illiniguy

The King Prawn

 

I don't want a dictator either, but how do we rein in congress? How do we regulate the regulators?

Nov 16 at 7:13pm

I've heard that Everett Dirksen once said that the greatest threat to the Republic came on the day they installed air conditioning in the Capitol building. Maybe we cut off the electricity in the summer.


Joined
Apr '11
James Of England

The King Prawn

James Of England: The Constitution really is the world's finest.

And if we adhered to it we wouldn't have most of the problems we face today. · Nov 16 at 8:11pm

It's adhered to more closely than any other constitution in the world. America's government may not be wonderful, but in practice, as well as in theory, it's the best.

I'm with you on wanting stronger limits on the commerce clause and conditional grants; Liz Dole was Reagan's worst moment, Justice Thomas 41's finest moment. Other than that, though, I'm not sure that I can think of many areas where the Constitution isn't kept pretty close to the original meaning. I guess equal protection, privacy/ infanticide, and the death penalty stuff are all problems, but, again, America's still better on these things than the rest of the developed world. And better than China, in different ways (the same way on abortion); I've attended Chinese trials and consider more or less any penalty inflicted to be intrinsically wrong, but more serious penalties to be more of a problem.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn

James Of England

 

It's adhered to more closely than any other constitution in the world.

If that really is the case then the problem is waaaaaaay bigger than just this nation; it's a problem of humanity. You just sent me back to wrestling between Plato & Aristotle, Augustine & Aquinas, and Hobbes & Locke. Have you watched the latest Uncommon Knowledge with Dr. Rahe yet?


Joined
Oct '11
Rick Blaskovich

[Edited]

Edited on Nov 17, 2011 at 4:50am

Joined
Oct '11
Rick Blaskovich

Karl Rove is a moron, and Romney sucks!  Bash whoever you want Prawn, but at least find a way to be honest about it.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn
Rick Blaskovich: Karl Rove is a moron, and Romney sucks!  Bash whoever you want Prawn, but at least find a way to be honest about it. · Nov 16 at 10:18pm

I'm confused. Do you think I'm bashing Perry? I've been the official Perry apologist here for quite some time. Perhaps you missed my defense of Perry topic.

Edited on Nov 16, 2011 at 10:30pm

Joined
Oct '11
Rick Blaskovich
david foster: He's not really a socialist, his leanings are more toward economic fascism aka corporatism or crony capitalism. · Nov 16 at 4:30pm

No, David, he is a Socialist! Time to re-read the Marx Ledger!


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