I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
As I was standing in the WalMart line yesterday, wondering if I would notice the difference between Kraft brand Mac n Cheese and Great Value brand Mac n Cheese, I noticed something about the spending habits of 3 people in front of me. All three had more food than I and all three paid with food stamps.
As I was passing through the aisles, prior to check out, I would see the "WIC Approved" sign on many of the items I was buying. Due to my current status as a deadbeat graduate student, my family and I could very easily qualify for many programs; food stamps, housing, bill assistance, etc. But, based on principle, specifically the principle that these programs are not the proper function of government, we decline to participate.
But, as I thought more, I realized that my salary comes from big government. My graduate position is supported by federal grants for research. The pittance of compensation that my masters in the ivory tower so graciously bequeath to me on a monthly basis comes from federal monies.
How is a conservative to reconcile this? Now that so many industries accept government money, or are downright dependent upon government, I'm sure I'm not alone in this conundrum. Should we simply refrain from accepting government jobs that are not in line with the proper role of government?
Do we accept the government money, participate in food stamps or government health insurance when we qualify? Doesn't such behavior support in a very real way the practices of recklessness that we deride in big government?
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May '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Start with the correspondence from Milton Friedman that William F. Buckley, Jr. excerpted in Cancel Your Own G***** Subscription: Friedman was defending his acceptance of Social Security benefits despite his loud disapproval of the program. In sum, you are a citizen. For better or worse, the federal government has approved of programs like the ones you mention and awards research grants to universities for the benefit (presumably) of its citizens. Even if you disapprove, you are no less allowed to participate and no less required to pay for them through the tax code as it applies to you. So my suggestion is do what you need to do for the benefit of your family, put in a hard days' work and give us something good in exchange for the grant money, hold your head up high, and get yourself elected to Congress as fast as humanly possible.
May '11
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
If the programs are available and I qualify for them, I will certainly avail myself of their largesse. I've paid (and continue to pay) more in taxes than I will ever recoup in goods or services from any branch of government. What pittance I can legally keep, I shall.
Edited on Aug 3, 2011 at 7:24amOct '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
You have received excellent advice above.
I am 68, and collect SS. My wife is 63 and also collects SS. However, Linda is totally disabled and lives in a rather sophisticated and large power wheelchair which was a gift from a friend. Our under water house payments almost exactly equal our combined SS income, and I am now unemployed due to the economy and my age. Included in the above SS income is a minuscule ($196) disability payment for Linda. Also, our house has been heavily modified over the last 20 years to allow Linda to function.
We have spent our lifetimes as conservatives opposing the vast array of non- constitutional programs, and apart from SS, we have never received any government money, including Medicare.
I am now in the middle of making the same reevaluation of my life choices as you are, and our friends Matthew and 2Evil4U have helped greatly to strengthen my resolve.
Many thanks to all three of you.
Jul '11
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
I can't really add much to Matthew Gilley's excellent response to your post. But you raise an interesting point that needs more attention. The liberal media never tires of pointing out the "hypocrisy" of conservative figures making use of government programs or tax-breaks that they oppose. Michele Bachmann has had several such gotcha stories written about her in the past few weeks alone. Conservatives should not be meek or sheepish in explaining why they do so. In fact it provides an opening to reinforce the Rule of Law.
We all are expected to live by the same rules - when the state is in the wealth redistribution business, there should be no prohibitions based on political perspective. To think otherwise is essentially fascist. The more conservatives point out the shallow thinking and dangerous implications of such claims of hypocrisy, the greater the chance of being able to effectively present public critiques of the value and costs of these programs.
Sep '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
The underlying basis for Government programs differ. I have not heard anyone argue that a conservative should not join the military or if he does should refuse his pay check. Generally it would be correct to say SS and Medicare are programs whose benefits are thought to be earned. While food stamps are supposedly based on a need that the individual cannot meet on their own.
Nov '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
To comment on the important things, Great Value is better than Kraft, as far as the mac-n-cheese. In general, the store brand is at least as good as the Kraft stuff, or in more dire cases not so worse as to justify paying 40-100% more for the Kraft. (The major exception is the Costco brand Kirkland mac. That stuff is just atrocious, almost inedible.)
However, don't be cheap and get the bottom-barrel generics. There is a reason they are only half the price of even the store brands.
I could probably get unemployment, and maybe even game the system for disability were I so inclined. But I don't, and not just because the latter would be fraud. I just don't feel like taking "free" other people's money just because I want some. I don't need it, not having a family of my own, living with my parents, etc.
Jun '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
With regard to Social Security, I resolved the issue in my own mind: I will withdraw from the program when I have recouped the amount I personally paid into the system, with compounded interest @ 6%. You can count me out of the program somewhere between age 109 and 110.
May '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Do y'all feel the same way about government jobs? Certainly, there is no shame in being a soldier or delivering mail. But should conservatives be comfortable accepting any public "service" jobs?
One might argue that it does not serve conservatives to allow bureaucracies to be dominated by liberal Democrats. But I have often thought it would be wrong of me to pursue a job that I believe should not exist and is effectively an unwarranted tax on my fellow citizens.
Jun '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Well put, Matthew. But do you feel the same toward food stamps and government health care for children? One of my main issues in not accepting such welfare is that I have, of my own volition, put myself into poverty. I could very easily work in an entry job or in manufacturing (at least I like to think so). But, I have decided to enter research and pursue a PhD. Why should you, others and my future self prop up individuals who willfully enter poverty? Another example would be the unemployed who simply do not look for work until their 96 weeks are up. Why should we subsidize bad choices?
Jun '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
A good thought, Mr. Miller. I tried to make the distinction in my post between government jobs that are proper constitutionally (military, police, fire... maybe road builders) and those that are not (EPA enforcers, Dept. of Ed. swat team...etc.).
I think conservatives should be weary to enter government fields, but must make this distinction if they are to do so and sleep well at night.
Jul '11
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
These are interesting ethical questions with no simple answers. John Derbyshire (at NRO) has long advocated that those looking for work should seek government jobs in particular, citing the job security and excellent compensation. That, to me, verges on going out of one's way to take advantage of a corrupt system, effectively victimizing one's fellow citizens. On the other hand, government has so distorted many markets, and crowded out competition in others, that it may be nearly impossible to avoid government money in some fields (basic science, for example). The idea that conservatives should avoid such fields is ludicrous on its face.
Your post, however, is in reference to "jobs that should not exist". That sounds like positions that owe their very being to government whims and not to any real demand that the market would otherwise satisfy. I would agree that taking a salary from any such position amounts to receiving stolen property. If you want to sleep at night, don't take it!
Jun '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Do you refuse to use a designated hitter in baseball, because you don't like the designated hitter rule? Hell no!
Oct '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Exellent question Master Samewise, and well answered by all above. You are a true conservative.
My position is that if you are doing your best to be productive in your current situation or you have fallen on hard times through no fault of your own and you have or will make your fair contribution to the programs mediated by civil government, you have no shame in deriving benefit from these programs.
Jun '11
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Feb '11
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Samwise Gamgee:
But, as I thought more, I realized that my salary comes from big government. My graduate position is supported by federal grants for research. The pittance of compensation that my masters in the ivory tower so graciously bequeath to me on a monthly basis comes from federal monies.
How is a conservative to reconcile this? Now that so many industries accept government money, or are downright dependent upon government, I'm sure I'm not alone in this conundrum. Should we simply refrain from accepting government jobs that are not in line with the proper role of government?
Do you believe your research will contribute to overall social welfare? If not, I have a problem with your academic support from grants I help pay for.
Maybe you have trouble evaluating your own work? If so, any gut feeling whether your graduate mentors think about the usefulness of your work?
Tell me you are not an English major!
May '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
I wouldn't feel guilty about government assistance for school. I received a scholarship but my school still compels me to fill out a fafsa form and apply for pell grants. The government insists that it intervenes in education, so any academically oriented person will be confronted by it eventually.
Oct '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
"One of my main issues in not accepting such welfare is that I have, of my own volition, put myself into poverty. I could very easily work in an entry job or in manufacturing (at least I like to think so). But, I have decided to enter research and pursue a PhD. Why should you, others and my future self prop up individuals who willfully enter poverty?"
You have not "entered poverty", you are deferring compensation as a form of investment in your future. There is nothing wrong in this as long as your intention is to maximize your productivity through developing your gifts talents and abilities. Society is better off when you and people like you make this type of investment. I for one am willing to support people like you who are willing to "enter poverty" for such a purpose.
Edited on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:42amJun '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Steven Zoraster
Tell me you are not an English major! · Aug 3 at 11:34am
The program is a cross between women's studies and peace studies.
Just kidding...but what if I wasn't....
Sep '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
Should someone who paid less than you either because they did not work as long or made less money as you get fewer benefits? Don't all our payments pay for others as well as ourselves?
To be fair wouldn't we have to do the return calculation you suggest based on the everyone's income divided by that same cohort's receipts.
I suspect that if you ran that calculation on all 70 year olds and on all 40 year olds you will see that the 70 year olds are getting a much better deal because of the % of SSI they pay in was lower over their working lifetime. AND that assumes the benefits for the 40 year olds don't get reduced in the future in terms of money or the retirement age at which they can collect. Which we know is unlikely.
I think arguments for fairness like you advance are a problem because the program has never been fair and will be generationally less so going forward.
May '10
Re: I'm a Conservative and Big Government Works for Me
I'm in the same position as you Sam, and also, despite qualifying, decline such handouts. That said, I think it's clear that getting paid by government to work is quite a bit different from being paid for not working. Assuming that you're using your meager pay to produce something, you shouldn't feel guilty. The same can't be said for many government bureaucrats who are earning probably 500% of what you receive as a grad student and likely do 1% of the work.
As a supporter of limited government, I have no problems with some public funding toward essential elements of academia, such as training new academics in relevant fields. It's the massive spending on the labyrinth of unessential junk that bothers me.
Edited on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:57am