“I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
I hate coming to conclusions until I’ve heard all the facts, but sometimes a piece of a story is just too irresistible to refrain from commenting about it.
Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman took the stand in his bail hearing. In a legally unnecessary apology to Trayvon’s family, he said of the boy, “I did not know if he was armed or not.”
Good grief. Why in the world would his attorneys allow him to say that?
If George didn’t know Trayvon was armed, the less reason there is to shoot him. Even if true, that didn’t have to come out now, and it only makes George look worse not better.
Certainly there are situations where an unarmed man (boy, rather) can be shot in self-defense.
However, George may have poisoned his own jury pool. If I’m the prosecution or Trayvon’s family, I’m keeping in the public ear as long as I can George’s admission that he did not know if the boy was armed, and still shot him.
The picture released today of the bloody back of George Zimmerman's head lends credibility to the claim that Trayvon banged George’s head on the ground.
Now, what I’m about to write may come from a certain cultural background, and it also may not vitiate George’s claim of self-defense, but here it goes: George Zimmerman should have taken his beating like a man and shouldn’t have shot a boy.
The facts that have come out so far (granted they could change) are that George Zimmerman targeted the boy, not the other way around. George was being a bully. If the boy started beating up the bully, then the bully should have at least expected that he could lose the fight, since the police advised him that they didn’t need him following Trayvon. That Trayvon could have kicked George’s rear-end is exactly WHY the police told him they didn’t need him to follow Trayvon.
A fair conclusion is that when George’s “neighborhood watch muscles” failed him, he cowardly went for his gun and shot an unarmed boy.
If he legitimately thought the boy was going to kill him that could change my mind. But until that evidence comes out, George Zimmerman is a punk who shot a boy he did not conclude was armed.
And he has a lousy lawyer.
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Comments:
Jul '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
The deafening silence from the editors despite repeated inquiries directly addressed to them has made me question exactly how much "skin in the game" the members have. There is a de facto double standard in place where the Code of Conduct is concerned. This whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
"Deafening silence?" We've made a number of comments in this thread, most recently at comment 209.
Please note that we generally do not debate Code of Conduct violations in these threads because doing so seems to always require that we describe the infraction. What would be the point of editing it out if we then debated the content that went over the line?
If you have a question, then you're free to email us at editors@ricochet.com. If it's germane to this thread such that you want to pose the question for all to see, then go ahead and do so.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Basil Fawlty
The Logo
Tommy De Seno: Well, it's off to a walk through with my Jr Pee Wee team who have a playoff game tomorrow.
Here's hoping none of them look suspicious enough to any of you so that you follow and shoot them. NO SKITTLES at this game, OK?
In the meantime, I leave you with this cherubic, very boyish looking face: · 15 minutes ago
8 hours ago
I wouldn't say they constitute a cogent argument, but more of an offhand explanation that he'd be leaving the thread for a while, along with a little (but not CoC-violating) dig.
Edited 5 hours ago
In the interest of further clarifying the CoC, perhaps you could explain exactly what it was about my comment at #9 (a reference to a fantasy out of the Rocky franchise, if I recall correctly) that warranted redaction. Personally, I don't find it nearly as snarky as many of Tommy's unredacted comments. In fact, Tommy gave what I consider to be a pretty good response to the comment before it was redacted. · 15 hours ago
I'll send you a private message.
Edited on April 23, 2012 at 4:59amApr '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Edit: It turns out I should check for updates before posting.
I do agree that conversations about infractions should generally not be public. This reduces the call to publicly shame people and also reduces terrible flame heavy wars about who should be banned from saying what. Those conversations are almost always less uplifting than conversations about, eg., Zimmerman and Martin. I recognize that, on reflection, I may not have helped in this instance. I hope that the editors and Tommy forgive me.
Selfishly, I particularly hope that Tommy overlooks my breach of etiquette and replies to my point about the Florida evidence code treatment of habit evidence. I felt pretty proud of my familiarity with it, but have a niggling suspicion that Tommy, who actually deals with courts, may know something that I don't.
Edited on April 23, 2012 at 5:13amDec '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
The Logo
"Deafening silence?" We've made a number of comments in this thread, most recently at comment 209.
Please note that we generally do not debate Code of Conduct violations in these threads because doing so seems to always require that we describe the infraction. What would be the point of editing it out if we then debated the content that went over the line?
If you have a question, then you're free to email us at editors@ricochet.com. If it's germane to this thread such that you want to pose the question for all to see, then go ahead and do so. · 22 minutes ago
Possibly Whiskey Sam takes offense at being called a liar. Especially when he was not the one lying, evading or backtracking on his own words.
Perhaps he would like an apology.
Apr '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Stuart Creque
Possibly Whiskey Sam takes offense at being called a liar. Especially when he was not the one lying, evading or backtracking on his own words.
Perhaps he would like an apology. ·
Do you mean an apology from Tommy or from the editors? The former is not what he asked for and the latter seems a little strong. The Logo hasn't called anyone any names (that I know of).
Tommy may be AFK today. He hasn't posted anywhere else, either. I could completely understand it if he wasn't desperate to get back to Ricochet. This thread probably isn't a lot of fun for him. I wouldn't be shocked if he apologized when/ if he comes back to the thread; he's a good guy, and I think he has apologized in the past over a similar complaint.
The editors.... well, if Sam wants an apology from The Logo, The Logo has pointed out that he should email (or possibly private message if it's specifically The Logo's apology being sought).
If you just mean that Sam's angry then... well, fair enough. It's best not to vent our anger on Ricochet, though.
Jul '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
The Logo
"Deafening silence?" We've made a number of comments in this thread, most recently at comment 209.
Please note that we generally do not debate Code of Conduct violations in these threads because doing so seems to always require that we describe the infraction. What would be the point of editing it out if we then debated the content that went over the line?
If you have a question, then you're free to email us at editors@ricochet.com. If it's germane to this thread such that you want to pose the question for all to see, then go ahead and do so. · 60 minutes ago
I'm not really sure how to proceed. This entire discussion has occurred in the thread, but this is not explicitly germane to the original post, more to the comments that followed. I can email the editors address or send a private message directly to you if you prefer that. Let me know how you would prefer to proceed.
Jul '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Whatever happens Whisky Sam, I see a Bostons Bruins logo and you're ok by me!
Dec '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
James Of England
Do you mean an apology from Tommy or from the editors? The former is not what he asked for and the latter seems a little strong. The Logo hasn't called anyone any names (that I know of).
Tommy may be AFK today. He hasn't posted anywhere else, either. I could completely understand it if he wasn't desperate to get back to Ricochet. This thread probably isn't a lot of fun for him. I wouldn't be shocked if he apologized when/ if he comes back to the thread; he's a good guy, and I think he has apologized in the past over a similar complaint.
If you just mean that Sam's angry then... well, fair enough. It's best not to vent our anger on Ricochet, though.
The Logo isn't the person who called Whiskey Sam a liar.
As for venting on Ricochet, well, Ricochet is where one of the contributors called him a liar.
We pay for access to this site. We agree to follow a Code of Conduct. Being called a liar by one of the site's official contributors doesn't seem like a desirable freebie.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Whiskey Sam
The Logo
"Deafening silence?" We've made a number of comments in this thread, most recently at comment 209.
. . .
If you have a question, then you're free to email us at editors@ricochet.com. If it's germane to this thread such that you want to pose the question for all to see, then go ahead and do so. · 60 minutes ago
I'm not really sure how to proceed. This entire discussion has occurred in the thread, but this is not explicitly germane to the original post, more to the comments that followed. I can email the editors address or send a private message directly to you if you prefer that. Let me know how you would prefer to proceed. · 2 hours ago
We somehow missed comment #175. I've deleted the more egregious form of the insult, but let the softer, "You've been following the thread long enough..." construction stand, as it allows room for other interpretations.
I apologize for the oversight.
Jul '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
The Logo
Whiskey Sam
The Logo
"Deafening silence?" We've made a number of comments in this thread, most recently at comment 209.
. . .
If you have a question, then you're free to email us at editors@ricochet.com. If it's germane to this thread such that you want to pose the question for all to see, then go ahead and do so. · 60 minutes ago
I'm not really sure how to proceed. This entire discussion has occurred in the thread, but this is not explicitly germane to the original post, more to the comments that followed. I can email the editors address or send a private message directly to you if you prefer that. Let me know how you would prefer to proceed. · 2 hours ago
We somehow missed comment #175. I've deleted the more egregious form of the insult, but let the softer, "You've been following the thread long enough..." construction stand, as it allows room for other interpretations.
I apologize for the oversight. · 7 minutes ago
Thank you. You might want to check 180, as well. It wasn't an isolated incident.
Apr '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Stuart Creque
The Logo isn't the person who called Whiskey Sam a liar.
As for venting on Ricochet, well, Ricochet is where one of the contributors called him a liar.
We pay for access to this site. We agree to follow a Code of Conduct. Being called a liar by one of the site's official contributors doesn't seem like a desirable freebie. · 51 minutes ago
I'm with you. I just think that if Tommy's not at his computer, there's not much anyone can do about that. Tommy's a trial lawyer, and that's work that can knock you off your feet sometimes. Or maybe he's visiting a friend.
I agree that the CoC is important, hold it as self evident that all men should be equal before it, and am glad that the insult got fixed. This wasn't the system working at its most elegant, but everyone misses some things when they skim.
And I get the temptation to voice irritation when slandered, but Sam was talking about the right way to go about things, and the right way is to break the vicious circle and be the better man.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Whiskey Sam
The Logo
Whiskey Sam
The Logo
"Deafening silence?" We've made a number of comments in this thread, most recently at comment 209.
. . .
If you have a question, then you're free to email us at editors@ricochet.com. If it's germane to this thread such that you want to pose the question for all to see, then go ahead and do so. · 60 minutes ago
I'm not really sure how to proceed. This entire discussion has occurred in the thread, but this is not explicitly germane to the original post, more to the comments that followed. I can email the editors address or send a private message directly to you if you prefer that. Let me know how you would prefer to proceed. · 2 hours ago
We somehow missed comment #175. I've deleted the more egregious form of the insult, but let the softer, "You've been following the thread long enough..." construction stand, as it allows room for other interpretations.
I apologize for the oversight. · 7 minutes ago
Thank you. You might want to check 180, as well. It wasn't an isolated incident. · 6 minutes ago
Got it.
Jul '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Thanks again, Logo. You've addressed all of my concerns.
Oct '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Let's all have ice cream now.
Dec '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
James Of England
I'm with you. I just think that if Tommy's not at his computer, there's not much anyone can do about that. Tommy's a trial lawyer, and that's work that can knock you off your feet sometimes. Or maybe he's visiting a friend....
And I get the temptation to voice irritation when slandered, but Sam was talking about the right way to go about things, and the right way is to break the vicious circle and be the better man.
Tommy has told us a few things about himself:
- He's a believing Christian.
- He mentors youth through sports programs.
- He subscribes to a moral code in which a man should take his lumps when they are deserved.
When a man like that says something intemperate and hurtful, he should not only be willing but should be in a great hurry to apologize for his conduct. Since he made the slur in this forum, it's not unreasonable to expect him to apologize in this forum.
But maybe you're right: maybe he's too busy being a lawyer.
Dec '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Gosh, it's too bad he didn't know enough to tap out or say "Uncle."
Jul '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
I saw this on Drudge Stuart Creque. I think a high round magazine would have dissuaded the fellows who applied the beating. Perhaps the man told the kids is was f'n cold. It's a shame this issue will devolve in to a negative racially charged one for potentially years because of bias and stupidity.
May '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
C'mon, Doc! Everyone knows high capacity magazines can only be used to commit crimes. It is physically impossible to use them for self defense.
I heard they even turn ordinary, law-abiding citizens into trigger-happy criminals.
Dec '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Mark Wilson
C'mon, Doc! Everyone knows high capacity magazines canonlybe used to commit crimes. It is physically impossible to use them for self defense.
I heard they even turn ordinary, law-abiding citizens into trigger-happy criminals. · 10 hours ago
If you follow the link I posted to Ace of Spades, you'll see it refers to this incident along with two other similar ones. It's the new national craze!
Pretty soon we'll all be tapping out and saying "Uncle."