“I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
I hate coming to conclusions until I’ve heard all the facts, but sometimes a piece of a story is just too irresistible to refrain from commenting about it.
Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman took the stand in his bail hearing. In a legally unnecessary apology to Trayvon’s family, he said of the boy, “I did not know if he was armed or not.”
Good grief. Why in the world would his attorneys allow him to say that?
If George didn’t know Trayvon was armed, the less reason there is to shoot him. Even if true, that didn’t have to come out now, and it only makes George look worse not better.
Certainly there are situations where an unarmed man (boy, rather) can be shot in self-defense.
However, George may have poisoned his own jury pool. If I’m the prosecution or Trayvon’s family, I’m keeping in the public ear as long as I can George’s admission that he did not know if the boy was armed, and still shot him.
The picture released today of the bloody back of George Zimmerman's head lends credibility to the claim that Trayvon banged George’s head on the ground.
Now, what I’m about to write may come from a certain cultural background, and it also may not vitiate George’s claim of self-defense, but here it goes: George Zimmerman should have taken his beating like a man and shouldn’t have shot a boy.
The facts that have come out so far (granted they could change) are that George Zimmerman targeted the boy, not the other way around. George was being a bully. If the boy started beating up the bully, then the bully should have at least expected that he could lose the fight, since the police advised him that they didn’t need him following Trayvon. That Trayvon could have kicked George’s rear-end is exactly WHY the police told him they didn’t need him to follow Trayvon.
A fair conclusion is that when George’s “neighborhood watch muscles” failed him, he cowardly went for his gun and shot an unarmed boy.
If he legitimately thought the boy was going to kill him that could change my mind. But until that evidence comes out, George Zimmerman is a punk who shot a boy he did not conclude was armed.
And he has a lousy lawyer.
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Comments:
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Did I? I've typed a lot of words here and honestly don't remember talking about a justifiable attack. Can you point that out?
I recall musing about the likely state of mind of Tryvon, and concluding that it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a minor to wonder that about an adult who is following him. I don't remember saying "justifiable attack."
We do know that Treyvon ran away. That lends support to his being afraid of Zimmerman. I don't suggest that rules out all other reasons one may ponder, but it is a reasonable inference based upon the circumstances.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Albert Arthur
Tommy De Seno
What do you make of Zimmerman on the audio tape telling the police that Treyvon ran away? · 1 minute ago
I took that to mean that Zimmerman had given up the pursuit. But I could be wrong, because I wasn't there. · 2 minutes ago
Could be.
Oct '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
You were clearly implying that Martin would have been justified in attacking Zimmerman if Zimmerman were a pedophile. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't pedophiles like, you know, little boys/girls? If Zimmerman were coming onto Martin sexually, he wouldn't be so much a pedophile as someone looking for a hookup. I do hope you don't think that getting propositioned by a gay man is grounds for violence?
Tommy De Seno
A 28 year old following a 17 year old and saying who knows what provocative things to him is grounds for that.
If Zimmerman were a pedophile, wouldn't we all be applauding Treyvon for banging his head into the ground?
Children are taught that weird looking adults following them are not to be taken lightly. · 19 hours ago
Again, Martin was not a child. He was 17.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Albert Arthur: You were clearly implying that Martin would have been justified in attacking Zimmerman if Zimmerman were a pedophile.
You are supplying the idea that Martin wondering about Zimmerman would be a reason to "attack Zimmerman."
I don't recall saying that at all, and asked you to direct me to the comment if I'm wrong about that.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Albert Arthur:
Again, Martin was not a child. He was 17. · 4 minutes ago
If you think that your own vision of a 17 year old as "a big boy now" will relieve you of legal burdens associated with minors, all I can say to you is "tell it to the judge" and wish you luck with that.
I have 10 year olds in my youth sports league who are bigger than Treyvon Martin was. They adults too?
Edited on April 21, 2012 at 7:46pmJul '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
I'll not only say that Martin was not a child but at he was the far superior one in a fight. When my stepson was 17 he was 6'1 and 175 and an all state linebacker and wrestled in the 160's. In decent shape and outweighing him by 50 lbs I would still have no chance against him unless sucker punch. You say you're doing youth football Tommy, how silly is it for you to not know how much better equipped a football player is to fight than any other athlete beyond a boxer / wrestler? Really, you keep calling a 17 yr old 6'2 man a kid. Be serious and look at facts instead of being a trial lawyer. Obfuscating, assuming, and using hyperbole is what you have done. You staked an opinion many including me find erroneous and you're arguing it to people a heck of a lot smarter than whatever plebeians they'll find for a jury. I object your honor and warn the jury to disregard the prosecutions speculation and grandstanding.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
And I have a boy, almost 17, who weighs 105.
I made the point earlier that there is no bright lines for determining if a 17 year old is a man or a boy, it depends upon him.
Is your point that all 17 year olds are men not boys?
Jul '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
No my point is about a 17 yr old football player. I've been around plenty of them and they are natural ass kickers. Now address that point.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Not all of them. Many don't play in high school after youth sports.
Did this 'natural ass kicker' play in high school?
Oct '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Tommy De Seno
And I have a boy, almost 17, who weighs 105.
I made the point earlier that there is no bright lines for determining if a 17 year old is a man or a boy, it depends upon him.
Is your point that all 17 year olds are men not boys? · 27 minutes ago
I don't think your son's weight has any relevance, other to inform the rest of us about your particular biases (ie, your son weighs 105lbs therefore all 17-year-olds weigh 105lbs). Trayvon Martin weighed 160lbs and was 6'0". That is not a child. And in any case, I don't see how it's relevant. If what happened was that Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head into the pavement, should we really expect Zimmerman to say to himself, "this guy who is bashing my head into the pavement is 30lbs lighter than me, so I should just take it like a man and let him continue beating my head into the pavement"?
Edited on April 21, 2012 at 8:36pmJul '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
All I know is that he was a football player. I'll bet he was academically ineligible recently. Hey maybe theres details we don't know but it's easier to engage in supposition to fit our narratives than waiting til facts come out. For instance, Z did his talk against legal counsel. You blamed his lawyer. The man acts innocent by the way and wants to explain himself, I assume that based on my understanding of human nature which is good as you'll find even if my mouth and keyboard lack common sense at times. I think Z is a foolish man but in the end he'll be nothing close to what you assume. Care for a gentleman's wager?
Jul '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Tommy, I would suggest you're grossly biased because you are equating Trayvon with your son Trey, evidenced by the fact that you repeatedly have misspelled his name as Treyvon throughout the comments.
You continually use the word "hunted". This implies premeditation. Do you believe he should have been charged with first degree murder? Not even the prosecution believes that.
You fabricated the idea of Martin possibly thinking Zimmerman was a pedophile out of whole cloth then cried foul when you were called on it. You know full well that repeatedly tossing this idea is an attempt to bias people into associating Zimmerman and pedophile. It's a disgusting weasel tactic.
You're playing the semantic games that make people hate lawyers. You come across as preferring to color everyone's perception so you will win the argument rather than caring about the truth, and that is precisely what many of us find wrong with our court system.
If I wanted to read a slanted post filled with half-truths, misinformation, and innuendo, I would read the Daily Kos. I hold no ill-will against you, but your antics in this thread have lowered my opinion of you and Ricochet.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Albert Arthur
Trayvon Martin weighed 160lbs and was 6'0".
Those sizes came from the police report. We don't know if they are estimates. The Internet is full of reports that he weighed 140. We don't really know.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Oh boy...
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Whiskey Sam:
You fabricated the idea of Martin possibly thinking Zimmerman was a pedophile out of whole cloth then cried foul when you were called on it. You know full well that repeatedly tossing this idea is an attempt to bias people into associating Zimmerman and pedophile. It's a disgusting weasel tactic.
[Ed. Insult redacted.]
You've been following the thread long enough to know that I did no such thing.
Edited on April 23, 2012 at 7:31amJul '11
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
See, I made a guess just to show you how silly your wild guesses are and then I prove your legal guess in the title dead wrong. Want to bet on why he wasn't playing ball if he wasnt? Grades, dope, just a punk? Wow, what speculation on my part.
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Tell me, Whiskey,
Knowing that Trayvon ran away, what is your best supposition of what he was thinking when he later encountered Zimmerman?
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
I don't know what this means.
Jul '10
Re: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Tommy De Seno
Whiskey Sam:
You fabricated the idea of Martin possibly thinking Zimmerman was a pedophile out of whole cloth then cried foul when you were called on it. You know full well that repeatedly tossing this idea is an attempt to bias people into associating Zimmerman and pedophile. It's a disgusting weasel tactic.
[Ed. Insult redacted.]
You've been following the thread long enough to know that I did no such thing. · 3 minutes ago
Edited 0 minutes ago
Your post #11:
"If a guy as weird as Zimmerman was following my teenaged son, if he got close enough, I wouldn't blame my son for planting one on the guy's chin. He wouldn't know the guy's intention, and it certainly is strange for a 28 year old man to be following a 17 year old boy. Could be a pedophile for all the boy knows.
Tell Zimmerman to leave his neighbors alone."
[Ed. Question about an earlier insult redacted]
Edited on April 23, 2012 at 8:00amRe: “I did not know if he was armed or not.” That, and George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Might Be An Idiot
Whiskey Sam
Tommy De Seno
Whiskey Sam:
You fabricated the idea of Martin possibly thinking Zimmerman was a pedophile out of whole cloth then cried foul when you were called on it. You know full well that repeatedly tossing this idea is an attempt to bias people into associating Zimmerman and pedophile. It's a disgusting weasel tactic.
[Ed. Insult redacted.]
You've been following the thread long enough to know that I did no such thing. · 3 minutes ago
Edited 0 minutes ago
Your post #11:
"If a guy as weird as Zimmerman was following my teenaged son, if he got close enough, I wouldn't blame my son for planting one on the guy's chin. He wouldn't know the guy's intention, and it certainly is strange for a 28 year old man to be following a 17 year old boy. Could be a pedophile for all the boy knows.
Tell Zimmerman to leave his neighbors alone."
[Ed. Question about an earlier insult redacted] · 1 minute ago
[Ed. Reformulation of earlier insult redacted.] Where did I say this is what Trayvon thought as opposed to supposition as to what he could have thought?
Edited on April 23, 2012 at 7:56am