I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Pseudodionysius ·
Nov 23, 2010 at 4:29pm
Fresh off the shocking news that dogs have written more profound works of philosophy than cats, my new new universal overlord Emily suggested that perhaps I up my game by highlighting this post by Catholic philosopher Edward Feser:
Lying to your kids about Santa Claus is immoral?
I'm curious what our Ricochet readers - Catholic and non-Catholic, religious and secular, think about this.
Addendum: And, yes, Feser discusses "the Nazi is at the door and you are hiding Jews in your basement" scenario as well as the "murderer at the door asking if anyone is at home", so dig out your Immanuel Kant, refresh yourself on the categorical imperative and have at it in the comments here on Ricochet.
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May '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Is the party of "Kant" the same as the party of "No?" No?
Better that my children believe in a fat man lives at the North Pole that gives something for nothing and be disillusioned at age 6 than believe at 45 that's real and lives in Washington, DC.
Aug '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I grew up in a very Protestant (in the sense that most of my family has a reflexive hostility towards Catholicism that I've never really understood) but not really Christian family. There were Santa gifts under the tree, and my parents did a not-so-good job of pretending Santa was real.
Having turned out Christian myself, I'd probably prefer to focus on the real Christmas story with my own kids, rather than the Santa story -- I find it more meaningful to attend midnight service and sing Christmas carols while my neighbor accidentally drips candle-wax on me than I do to open presents around a tree, anyhow.
Hubby and I won't lie to our kids that Santa is real -- but Santa can make a compelling fairy-tale, and I agree with CS Lewis and Tolkien that fairy-tales and fantasy help develop a child's imagination and moral sense.
There's a practical use for Santa, too. To avoid feelings of gift-inadequacy among other relatives, if we give an unusually lavish gift, we label it "from Santa" (or occasionally "from Satan", since I'm childish enough to still find that misspelling funny).
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 6:19pmSep '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
CS Lewis and Tolkien that fairy-tales and fantasy help develop a child's imagination and moral sense.
Yes, I think that's the one counter that you can make to Feser's point about Santa Claus and lying. Tolkien referred to myths as "lies breathed through silver" with "splintered shards of the truth" and I'm glad that someone else has read their Lewis and Tolkien.
Nov '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I take the fairy tale approach to Santa as well. Every year we read The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus (by Amelia Houghton, pub'd 1932 and available for free from mainlesson.com, which I recommend highly to all read-aloud families), which is a lovely and heart-warming story about the origins of the little boy Nicholas. Just a fantastic story! It's one of many books we read every season, but it is one of the kids' favorites.
I don't remember ever believing in Santa Claus....
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 12:12pmSep '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I think it would be cool to invite Ed Feser to guest post for a stint.
Aug '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I doubt that either Lewis or Tolkien would've expected their readers of fantasy to believe it was real. Just enough to suspend disbelief so that the Truth of the story could be conveyed. The problem as I see it with teaching children that Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Moderate Democrats, are real is that when they finally learn the truth, in the back of their minds is the question: So what else did dad tell me that isn't true? His love? Mom's love? God? Etc.
Sep '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Yes, that's exactly Feser's point, which I think is compelling. The only other time I've encountered it is among certain Christian sects who believe Christmas isn't a Christian feast at all and shouldn't even be celebrated, which is a whole other topic.
Jun '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
St. Paul famously said, "Ask and you shall receive." So I take it we're all just peach fine with religion as another form of magic? But damned if we say to the kiddies Santa brought the present.
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 8:06pmSep '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Reading these posts I found myself thinking about my 6 and 4 yr old boys and their approach to reality. I have not tried to teach them that Santa isn't real but I routinely tell them that Star Wars isn't real nor is the Zizzer Zazzer Zuzz at the end of Dr.Seuss's ABC book and they hear me, more or less, but they don't care. They're also happy to think that Super Heros can use light sabers to fight Transformers...I remember getting the old "Santa is the Spirit of Christmas" spiel from my parents and at some point I figured out what that meant. I'm with Lewis and Tolkien certainly and it wouldn't surprise me if the more forceful approach carries risks as well.
Jul '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Pseudodionysius
Yes, that's exactly Feser's point, which I think is compelling.
Bah. This is just another liberal attempt of destroying tradition. Let's see what Chesterton had to say about Santa and tradition:
Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.
Hrm. Feser or Chesterton on the proper role of Santa in society as practiced by a Catholic?
I know where I put my money...
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 5:49pmMay '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I don't think lying to your kids about Santa Claus is any more immoral than telling them Jesus was born on December 25. I believe it was the Catholic Church (around the 4th century) who appropriated the pagan celebration Saturnalia by naming the last day of the week long celebration, December 25, as Christ's birthday. So, it's all a big lie, anyway. Who cares. I assist in a pre-k Sunday school class, and the teacher wants to have a birthday party for Jesus. I had to force myself not to smile when she told me, since that scene from "Full Metal Jacket" immediately came to mind. But I'm making cupcakes with green and red sprinkles, dang it. 'Cause it's Christmas.
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 6:40pmJul '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Christmas is a pagan holiday. Jeremiah 10 explains The Almighty's thoughts on it. I think having Yer kids believe that the mythical Santa Claus exists is only feeding the fire.
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 6:52pmMay '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Aaaagh!! I just wrote a long comment and when I hit "Post" I got dumped. I'm too tired to rewrite it, now. Sorry, Pseudo.
Aug '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I've heard that the date of the census around the time when Jesus was born would make it more likely that He was born sometime in March.
But given that He was born, He had to have a birthday some time during the year, and for me it's more important that we observe it than that we observe it on the most historically probable date.
And the symbolism of light coming out of darkness right after the solstice is hard to beat.
What's funny is I had an argument about this with my very secular dad last year. Mom had just had surgery, and everyone but Dad had agreed to move Christmas back a week or two to accommodate her. But Dad said no, Christmas had to be on the 25th or it wasn't Christmas. (Dad had never shown any attachment to Christmas before this -- in fact he rather prided himself on being the family Grinch.)
Dad got his way in the end.
Jul '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
This strikes me as self-indulgent hand-wringing.
I think Mr. Feser needs a more challenging day job. Perhaps being a stay-at-home father for a year or two would do the trick. Don't lie to children! What's next? Don't bribe or threaten? Along with love, those constitute the three legs of the parental stool.
A good 5% of parent-child interaction involves lies: "You're safe, daddy's here. You can do anything you set your mind to. If you do what you're told and follow the rules, you'll succeed."
One could reasonably classify such statements as wishful thinking rather than lies, but at the end of the day they are promises that parents can't deliver.
For some, the awakening is a cruel disillusionment; thereafter they will be wary of the things that are told them by those whose words should be sacred.
For some, the awakening is called growing up. Grown ups should be wary.
Aug '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Palaeologus:
A good 5% of parent-child interaction involves lies: "... You can do anything you set your mind to. If you do what you're told and follow the rules, you'll succeed."
I think it's destructive to gorge kids on unqualified lines like "You can do anything you set your mind to" and "If you do what you're told and follow the rules, you'll succeed". I certainly felt betrayed by the adults who told me such things: firstly, because they were lying to me, and secondly, because they seemed to assume that, simply because I was a child, I lacked the subtlety to understand that these maxims come hedged about with numerous exceptions.
Far better to let kids know sooner rather than later that we all have natural limitations and that the race may be often to the swift, but not always.
But then, I was always an unusually literal-minded child, who perhaps put more value on telling the truth than most do. Perhaps not all children feel as grossly betrayed by this kind of wishful thinking as I did.
Jun '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Andrea: write your comments in a word processor first, then cut and paste into Ricochet.
Edited on Nov 23, 2010 at 8:05pmJul '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Palaeologus:
A good 5% of parent-child interaction involves lies: "... You can do anything you set your mind to. If you do what you're told and follow the rules, you'll succeed."
I think it's destructive to gorge kids on unqualified lines like "You can do anything you set your mind to" and "If you do what you're told and follow the rules, you'll succeed".
I agree. I'd say the same about bacon.
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Far better to let kids know sooner rather than later that we all have natural limitations and that the race may be often to the swift, but not always.
I think that's a long-term, layered, developed lesson to impart, one small thing at a time. Pushing it harshly on kids can lead to apathy, rejectionism, and ultimately nihilism.
Nov '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
I can tell you what I did when I found out Santa Claus wasn't real: I rejected the conservative Christian values by which I was raised. I immediately rejected the institution of marriage which incubated such a lying family. I also became gay and a member of the Church of Divine Man. This is what probably should have happened, but it didn't. I'll tell you something else: kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.
How's about we find an actual moral problem to solve, instead of inventing one. The last thing we need right now are Christians trying to out-Christian each other.
Nov '10
Re: I Saw Mommy Dissing Santa Claus
G.K. Chesterton on believing in Santa Claus (Part 1)
"What has happened to me has been the very reverse of what appears to be the experience of most of my friends. Instead of dwindling to a point, Santa Claus has grown larger and larger in my life until he fills almost the whole of it.
It happened in this way. As a child I was faced with a phenomenon requiring explanation. I hung up at the end of my bed an empty stocking, which in the morning became a full stocking. I had done nothing to produce the things that filled it. I had not worked for them, or made them or helped to make them. I had not even been good-— far from it. And the explanation was that a certain being whom people called Santa Claus was benevolently disposed toward me; what we believed was that a certain man did give us those toys for nothing.
And, as I say, I believe it still. I have merely extended the idea. Then I only wondered who put the toys in the stocking; now I wonder who put the stocking by the bed, and the bed in the room..."