I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
During our Thanksgiving gathering I shocked my family, comprised of lost liberal souls and staunch conservatives, by stating that I thought that the new "hire a vet and get a tax break" legislation was a feel-good, do-nothing piece of political pablum that would in the end not serve our veterans well. I am active in groups that support the troops, my dad was a career Marine, and my spouse was career Air Force so I am a big fan of our military.
My reasoning is that I feel this law is narrowly defined and excludes older veterans and certainly does no favors to the millions of other Americans who are out of work. I like the idea in theory, but under the surface, isn't it a form of affirmative action that veterans most likely do not expect? They are qualified on their merits of doing a job well done while serving their country, and although they definitely need and want to work, they recognize that they should be hired because they are the best of the potential employees to fill the job. Where am I going wrong in my thinking? I am getting a lot of grief, especially from my retired AF significant other. He is calling me a liberal, and that is such a blow. Am I?
If Obama had allowed the pipeline project to proceed, that alone would have created a lot more jobs for veterans and civilians of all backgrounds. Why is this legislation such great step forward? This is my very first post on any blog, so be gentle.
- Comment (32)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (2)
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
Comments :
Jun '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
I for one agree with you. The liberal approach to job creation is stimulus spending plus this kind of gimmicky one time tax break with lots of strings attached. The conservative approach is to get government out of the way by cutting taxes across the board, deregulate, and stop blocking projects like the Keystone pipeline. Veterans are disciplined, hard working leaders who will have no trouble getting jobs on their own merits once we unshackle the free market.
Jul '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
I'm not familiar with the legislation, but "hire a vet and get a tax break" smells of social engineering. That's unConstitutional.... meaning liberal.
Edited on Nov 26, 2011 at 5:19pmMay '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Belle, you are so NOT a liberal! Jobs exist when there is a good or a service that others need or want. Employers hire new employees when they need more people to provide their good or service. Tax breaks for hiring certain people will NOT create any jobs. And employers won't hire new employees when they are unsure what it will cost their business.
Mar '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
I'm a (recent) vet...I sure didn't start my career 35 years ago, thinking, "Someday, I'll deserve a better chance then my classmates getting a job!" Hey, here's a nutty idea...select the best candidate for the job!
May '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Thanks for all the reinforcement of my basic thoughts about this legislation. I feel somewhat vindicated and actually very surprised that all the commenters share my view. For further thoughts, here is a link
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/194837-obama-signs-unemployed-veterans-bill
It appears that no one voted against this bill. How could they? Republicans would have been vilified if they had. This kind of legislation reminds me of the Davy Crockett Sockdolager tale. If you have never heard it, here it is. I believe it reinforces our points.
http://thenewamerican.com/opinion/chip-wood/3333-davy-crockett-and-the-us-constitution
I'm new to inserting links so I hope these work. You might have to cut and paste. Meanwhile, I'll work on doing a better job next time.
Edited on Nov 26, 2011 at 7:37pmOct '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Liberty Belle: Thanks for all the reinforcement of my basic thoughts about this legislation. I feel somewhat vindicated and actually very surprised that all the commenters share my view. For further thoughts, here is a link
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/194837-obama-signs-unemployed-veterans-bill
It appears that no one voted against this bill. How could they? Republicans would have been vilified if they had. This kind of legislation reminds me of the Davy Crockett Sockdolager tale. If you have never heard it, here it is. I believe it reinforces our points.
http://thenewamerican.com/opinion/chip-wood/3333-davy-crockett-and-the-us-constitution
I'm new to inserting links so I hope these work. You might have to cut and paste. Meanwhile, I'll work on doing a better job next time. · Nov 26 at 7:33pm
Edited on Nov 26 at 07:37 pm
Doesn't seem like something Ron Paul would vote for.
Oct '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Good Berean
Doesn't seem like something Ron Paul would vote for. · Nov 26 at 8:15pm
It was attached to a repeal of 3% withholding for vendor payments by government entities and modified AGI for health insurance purposes. The amendment was proposed by Murray, Senator from Navy-rich Washington. That said, I'm still surprised the good doctor voted for it. In the Senate DeMint initially opposed it, and in the House 16 Democrats voted nay, including 90%-totally-wrong-10%-right-on Kucinich.
I'd like to think that if this measure was put on its own, the levels of support would change. One of my buddies was a diesel mechanic in the Army, and there's no way he would have taken a job if he knew he got the edge due to a tax break. Like so many well meaning causes, it's meant as a show of respect (or pandering...), but ends up looking pretty disrespectful.
Apr '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
QuickerBrownFox
It was attached to a repeal of 3% withholding for vendor payments by government entities and modified AGI for health insurance purposes. The amendment was proposed by Murray, Senator from Navy-rich Washington.
I've noticed your posts before. (In wonder; where does he find the time?) Perhaps you should be our go-to guy for technical details on legislative mechanisms.
Of course, you would have to drop the elitist "Quicker" and settle for "Average Got Here Through Seniorty Fox." :-)
Jan '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
No, you are not a Liberal...at least not in the modern day sense. In my opinion, veterans do not deserve much of the sacred-cow status that they now hold when it comes to legislative giveaways. And if you vote against their interests [or largess] you are tarred and feathered for it; both politically, if you're a politician, and as an individual with a voice, like on a message board. I'm pleasantly surprised you have not gotten any negative feedback for this as of yet.
May '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Vets having problems finding jobs probably has more to do with myopic (trying to stay within the COC here) recruiters and hiring managers. Not to mention the terrible economy overall.
Jun '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
I'm a veteran and i am it annoyed when I hear people say "we cannot do enough for our veterans." we can do too much and certainly too much that does little. My guess is that this tax break will have no measurable effect on the lives of vets generally and certainly none on those who have been most profoundly effected by the wars we ask them to fight (I.e. those wounded and maimed by the wars). If this tax break would help those . . . Press on - but it won't. As suggested by others it will only help those in office continue in that profession.
Jun '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
I'm a veteran and i am it annoyed when I hear people say "we cannot do enough for our veterans." we can do too much and certainly too much that does little. My guess is that this tax break will have no measurable effect on the lives of vets generally and certainly none on those who have been most profoundly effected by the wars we ask them to fight (I.e. those wounded and maimed by the wars). If this tax break would help those . . . Press on - but it won't. As suggested by others it will only help those in office continue in that profession.
Dec '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
As a veteran I'm reminded of all those people I served with who I would rather have served without. Not every veteran is worthy of a statue, or a statute.
Sep '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
I differentiate between veterans and combat veterans. Since inclusion in the armed forces is voluntary, I favor some kind of incentive for joining (what it should be, I don't know), and I favor much bigger perks for folks who have participated in battle. I don't know if this position could play out legislatively without incurring unintended harms—in my mind, there is no political solution—but as a citizen and an American I don't have any problem with making life after battle easier than life before battle. Certainly, to my mind, lifetime health care should pertain, to both the combat veteran and his or her family. If we can't afford that perk, well, we can't afford anything, in my opinion.
Edited on Nov 27, 2011 at 9:24amRe: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Liberty,
It may have been your first post, but it was an awfully good one. You took on a sacred cow long overdue for goring, and you did so with clarity and grit.
This is just one more example of the special social classes who, when invoked, cause lawmakers to stop thinking. It reminds me a bit of a ballot measure we had in California in 2008 that issued almost a billion dollars in bonds to help veterans buy farms (a wag friend of mine called it "1868's most innovative piece of lawmaking"). With no one willing to oppose the vets, it passed with nearly 2/3 of the vote.
We touched on this, in passing, in a past episode of "Young Guns." I made the argument there that I'd rather see base pay for the military substantially ramped up and all of these other in-kind benefits jettisoned. Market distortions and legacy costs don't make any more sense when they're attached to someone in uniform.
Aug '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Nothing's wrong with your thinking.
If he were my siggy, he'd lose privileges for that, at least until he apologized. Just sayin' :-)
Your reasoning seems eminently conservative to me. It shows long-term thinking and an ability to see beyond feel-good hype.
I've heard from folks I trust that vets, especially those who have spent all their adult lives in the forces, often lack practice with the job-seeking skills that civilians take for granted. They may have never had to write a resume or sit a job interview, for instance.
But it doesn't then follow that the right way to address this problem is tax breaks for employers. If a program to help vets find jobs is needed, some job-seeking training options for vets as they leave the service sounds more sensible, which is something each branch of the Armed Forces could probably best take care of on its own.
Oct '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Glenn the Iconoclast
Of course, you would have to drop the elitist "Quicker" and settle for "Average Got Here Through Seniorty Fox." :-) · Nov 27 at 4:52am
Where I'm from, "Brown" means "anal-retentive Googling " and "Fox" means "know-it-all with nothing-substantive-to-do federal employee" (is that redundant?). The "Quicker" is a liberty I take to supplement my 40 minute lunch break. Slave drivers, right?!
Dec '10
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
QuickerBrownFox
Glenn the Iconoclast
Of course, you would have to drop the elitist "Quicker" and settle for "Average Got Here Through Seniorty Fox." :-) · Nov 27 at 4:52am
Where I'm from, "Brown" means "anal-retentive Googling " and "Fox" means "know-it-all with nothing-substantive-to-do federal employee" (is that redundant?). The "Quicker" is a liberty I take to supplement my 40 minute lunch break. Slave drivers, right?! · Nov 27 at 9:58am
You put the hyphen between anal and retentive. Outstanding!
May '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
In addition, veteran preferences are one of a number of minor preferences that the left uses to justify massive racial preferences as being just one part of a "diversity" program.
Mar '11
Re: I Oppose Affirmative Action, Even For Vets: Am I a Liberal?
Veterans' preference is not affirmative action. AA favors people for what they are. VP favors people for what they've done. My direct experience with VP was in federal employment, where wartime vets got five or ten points added to their competitive hiring score and a certain amount of protection against layoffs. It was designed to try to compensate for the career lag caused by military service. Perhaps the concept needs to be rethought in the era of the all-volunteer service, but it certainly made sense to me as a draftee. I'd also argue that the GI Bill which sent so many vets to college was, on balance, good public policy.