How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Over the last couple months, I've been reading about how Muslim extremists have been systematically destroying ancient relics and historical sites in Mali. A lot of it centered on Timbuktu.
I find it all quite disturbing, and I don't think it's gotten a lot of press. I have often wondered if it would be right for another nation (the U.S.?) to intervene to preserve these important historical sites, pyramids, temples, and other ancient Egyptian sites that the Muslims consider sacreligious. "As if!" you say. "They've tried before and they couldn't do it!" (Though the Sphinx lost a nose. And no, that wasn't Napoleon who did it, either.) However, technology has advanced to the point where destroying pyramids could probably be done, and fanatical Islamists seem eager to give it a try.
Would it be right to intervene to protect these sites that are in danger of being lost? (Ironically, would we discover that some people find more of a cause to protect these antiquities than to protect the people whose lives are similarly endangered by the rise of Islamic extremism?)
How would you propose we preserve the world's important historical and cultural treasures from extremist Islam?
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Dec '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
The options are
1.Force or threat of force
2. Economic sanction or threat thereof
3. Call in goodwill or favours
Remembering that each of these comes at a cost. Exactly what is the gain to western governments/western electorates from the protection of these sites.. and do they view these are worth the cost?
My guess is little gain with much cost. So no to 1 and 2 and a lukewarm effort at 3 is my guess. We will settle at the token appearance of seeming to do something about it, without actually committing to. This gives a small benefit, with little to no cost for both government and electorate.... hey it's how the UN does everything.
May '10
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Option 4. shut up and mind our own business. Life changes.
May '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
DrewInWisconsin Would it be right to intervene to protect these sites that are in danger of being lost?
How would you propose we preserve the world's important historical and cultural treasures from extremist Islam?
If by 'intervene' you mean sending in troops to guard them 7/24 for the next 20 years, no. There's no need for that. The best option is to do what Lord Elgin did with the Elgin Marbles. Buy them and ship them back home.
If the locals can't (or won't) appreciate their own heritage, art, and culture or that of a previous civilization, then let the person/people who most wants to preserve that heritage, art, and culture become the guardians of it. The truth is that the Brits are better guardians than the Greeks. Ditto for the Germans and the Altar of Pergamon. The Taliban could have made a fortune off selling the most interesting bits of the Bamiyan Buddhas if they wanted to because there were serious buyers out there.
My advice; if you've got spare cash, & if the Egyptian Islamists aren't total morons, get ready for a fire-house sale of antiquities from ancient Egypt.
Edited on July 11, 2012 at 3:44amApr '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Ship the pyramids home? That'll be a cool engineering feat.
Besides with International Law as it is these days with treasures and antiquities, it would be illegal. And Greece wants the Elgin Marbles back because they were "looted." It might be easier to just kill them all and take their land, becoming the new residents. It worked for the Germans who became Prussians after wiping out the Slavic tribe that originally held that name. Oh, wait, that would be illegal, too. I guess we're back to option #4. Get your pictures while you can. It may be all that's left.
Random thought: Did you know that mummies were once so common in Egypt that they were burned as fuel in fires?
Aug '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
I think we should be concerned that it's going on, but I don't see anything feasible for the US to do. Spend tax dollars protecting artifacts halfway across the world? No thanks. T
Jul '10
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
I would consult The Constitution.
And the only world's important historical and cultural treasures We should preserve from extremist Islam is The United States of America.
Nov '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
"Intervene" how? Drop bombs on them?
Aug '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
I think "how" was my question. This assumes, of course, that they're worth preserving. I think they are.
Apr '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
I have just received word from Minister Farrakhan, "Napoleon did do it. He used time machines from the Mother Ship, and he shot the nose off in 1378! He and his troops shot it nineteen times and then blamed that African who was lynched by the crowd!"
Edited on July 11, 2012 at 4:11amFeb '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Drew, Would you be asking the same question if Israel was threatening to destroy Ancient Babylon?
Aug '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Unpack that for me. What do you mean by "Ancient Babylon"? Israel threatening Iran? I think that's a bit different than specifically targeting temples and sites of historical significance.
May '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
And it's a joke of an argument from Greece. The Elgin Marbles won't be going back to the Greeks, the Altar of Pergamon won't be going back to Turkey, and so on and so on. As long as these nations want these artifacts, they won't be going anywhere. Besides the UNESCO and UNIDROIT treaties on trading antiquities only cover "Illegally" excavated and exported antiquities, not ones sold under the supervision of a sovereign democratically elected one like Egypt has now.
Jul '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
As tragic as the loss of historical sites like Carnac and the Pyramids would be, it might serve as a chilling example to the rest of the world that some people simply lack the sober, mature attitude required for self rule. I certainly can't justify taking my wife or children there.
So despite the fact that I have officially written off any possibility of visiting Egypt during my lifetime due to developments there, I would hate to think that that sort of attitude would spread to Turkey (also going the way of Islamism) or other officially Muslim states where there are other older and even more compelling sites such as Gobekli Tepe.
Nov '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
I would not sacrifice American blood, and very little American treasure, to protect them. It's not our area of responsibility. (Except, of course, in a situation where we do currently have responsibilities, such as Iraq.)
I would use diplomatic efforts, and I would definitely make an international issue of it, as loudly as possible. Name and shame. It's a unique and obvious example of the evil of extremist Islam. Put pressure on them -- and ask Europeans to put pressure on them. Make the Europeans and American left talk about the kinds of things these people do.
Nov '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
DrewInWisconsin
I think "how" was myquestion. This assumes, of course, that they're worth preserving. I think they are. ยท 48 minutes ago
Okay, find a billionaire with plenty of time on his hands, get him to fund an expedition, hire a bunch of Blackwater guys, and go over there.
If you want to do it privately, I would not stop you, nor object in any way.
Dec '10
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Drew,
"Let's reach out to Islam."
Perhaps if you enter a Tiger's cage it will roll over and you can rub it's tummy and it will purr like a kitten. Or perhaps you will wind up as lunch.
The answer to your question is very simple. The best way to protect the historical sites is to remove the idiot that now resides in the White House ASAP!
Regards,
Jim
Edited on July 11, 2012 at 5:03amMay '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
At least with the issue of Egypt, it goes back to the issue of whether the Islamists(both MB & Al-Nour) are morons or have enough sense to want to make a buck. Back during the Cultural Revolution in China, lots of porcelain & other antiquities were sold at bargain prices by the ChiComs who wanted to rid China of the pre-Communist past. Now, the Chinese fill the auction houses and art galleries buying these same pieces back. Even when there were willing buyers for the Bamiyan Buddha's, the Taliban were too driven by Islam to want to destroy every trace of the non-Islamic and lost out on a huge chance for making money.
Assuming the Egyptian Islamists aren't totally stupid(big 'if') and they start putting the non-Islamic contents of their museums up for sale on the market, as I stated earlier, get your checkbooks ready folks, a potential chance to buy Egyptian antiquities like this won't come up for ages.
Edited on July 11, 2012 at 9:10pmFeb '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
DrewInWisconsin
Unpack that for me. What do you mean by "Ancient Babylon"? Israel threatening Iran? I think that's a bit different than specifically targeting temples and sites of historical significance. ยท 23 minutes ago
Sorry. To the truly radical Islamist, the region that is Ancient Babaylon, holds great historical significance. I'm not trying to be arguementative, and I'm certainly not a great supporter of Radical Islam. But if we want to preserve history, don't we have a duty to preserve it all? How do you make the distinction of what is worth saving and what isn't? Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not an isolationist but in some respects I think it's up to each nation to protect it's historical treasures. If that involves moving what can be moved to safer places for preservation, even if it means taking it out of the country, I'd be for helping with that. Keep in mind though, we can't get the UN to protect live people, which is their primary function.
Apr '12
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
Other than through a war with Iraq with some serious bombing, that would be very unlikely to happen. Israel and the Jews do not have to wipe out the past to prove a point and prove their cultural heritage. Indeed, it is suspected that the Arabs of the Muslim persuasion have been doing exactly that on the Temple Mount, perhaps digging under al Aqsa Mosque and removing artifacts from situ to destroy evidence of previous Jewish occupation.
Of course, the most interesting part of this is that in Mali, it is Muslims destroying Muslim cultural heritage because it is idolatrous. In other words, they are not shouting, "Infidels!" But rather they are shouting, "Heretics!"
Nov '11
Re: How Would You Protect Important Historical Treasures From Islamic Extremists?
I find your imperialism and ethnocentrism disturbing. We should be tolerant of the Takfiris expressions of creative destruction.